Help me buy a hardtail

I've decided I'd like a versatile hardtail but I've no real idea what's actually available here (Lower Mainland).

I'm after something more "xc" than hardcore as I want it to double up for bike-packing/touring and general exploring (looking for all those secret North Shore trails 😜) but I'm definitely "wheels on the ground" rather than big drops or jumps and I'm not gonna be riding double black trails.

Anyway, I want to keep it quite light (I'm expecting to do big mileage and lots of climbing) but also comfortable and probably based around 100 -120mm of travel and not extremely slack geo. For comfort, I'm thinking steel rather than alloy.

Would consider frame only or a full build.

From what I can see, most brands available locally have pretty low rent alloy hardtails which lo-rent spec.

At the other end of the scale, Landyachtz do custom (as does Dekerf but with a three year waitlist!)

Something like a Cotic Solaris, Stanton Sherpa or Pipedream Sirius would tick most boxes but I'm an awkward size so I'd prefer to try-before-i-buy and these are only available mail order from UK....

So what are the local equivalent?

Nearest mainstream equivalent I can think of is Kona Unit X but that's rigid. How do I figure out whether it's suspension corrected?

Landyachtz also have the Play 2.0 as frame only (is $649 the going rate for a CroMo frame these days?)

Also, is there much weight difference between 4130 CroMo and something like Reynolds 853?

Skip steel if you want low weight. Lots of aluminum bikes with really great ride quality these days.

Stuff you can try locally?

Santa Cruz Chameleon would be a great option for something light and versatile, with a rear triangle designed for some comfort. You might find some locally?

You might find a banshee paradox or enigma of you're mullet curious, but the banshees have a slightly more all-mountain slant.

I think testable local options for hardtails are somewhat limited unfortunately...

I'd recommend watching pink bike and buying used, there not much to go wrong with hard tails so it's a pretty safe bet and if it doesn't pan out you can flip is for next to no net loss of $.

RSD middle child is another popular one in that vein.

A few of my friends and my GF got an RSD Middlechild in steel. They all used them for shredding and bikepacking. You can get frame only or buy a complete. I would expect you can find a MC owner in the lower mainland to let you parking lot demo their bike for a pint or two.

I've not found there is any issue with putting big miles on a HT with more shreddy geo and a 140mm fork. It just disappears on gravel/pavement and then proves useful on the trails. You can also swap in a rigid fork for the times you don't want to ride trails. Most of the available rigid forks will either maintain or steepen a 140mm forked HT.

I have a friend with a SC Chameleon he really likes. He only trail rides with it, but no reason you can get it out for long rides with the right tires.

I also have a friend with a Kona Unit that he does a bunch of gravel/bikepacking with. He really likes it. There should be an opportunity to parking lot demo one if you can't find one in stock at a dealer.

ETA - the lower mainland is big enough you could well find an owner of one of those UK brand HTs who will let you sit on/parking lot demo their bikes for size.

Posted by: Kenny

Skip steel if you want low weight. Lots of aluminum bikes with really great ride quality these days.

Stuff you can try locally?

Santa Cruz Chameleon would be a great option for something light and versatile, with a rear triangle designed for some comfort. You might find some locally?

You might find a banshee paradox or enigma of you're mullet curious, but the banshees have a slightly more all-mountain slant.

I think testable local options for hardtails are somewhat limited unfortunately...

I'd recommend watching pink bike and buying used, there not much to go wrong with hard tails so it's a pretty safe bet and if it doesn't pan out you can flip is for next to no net loss of $.

RSD middle child is another popular one in that vein.

Was at the shop test riding commuter bikes yesterday, yes steel is heavy but the differences in ride quality is unmistakable from the moment the tires hit the tarmac. 

I hear soft riding aluminum frames exist, but maaan I have tried or owned a large number of them over the years and every one of them felt like it was rattling my fillings loose. 

Aluminum full suspension however is sublime.

Surly does steel hardtails, but their local representation isn't great. 

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/trail

Although not as xc as you probably want, I love my steel Norco Torrent as a do it all bike.

🏞️ So rad/\ 

That's the kind of picture that changes people's life trajectory.

Posted by: Vikb

A few of my friends and my GF got an RSD Middlechild in steel. They all used them for shredding and bikepacking. You can get frame only or buy a complete. I would expect you can find a MC owner in the lower mainland to let you parking lot demo their bike for a pint or two.

I've not found there is any issue with putting big miles on a HT with more shreddy geo and a 140mm fork. It just disappears on gravel/pavement and then proves useful on the trails. You can also swap in a rigid fork for the times you don't want to ride trails. Most of the available rigid forks will either maintain or steepen a 140mm forked HT.

I have a friend with a SC Chameleon he really likes. He only trail rides with it, but no reason you can get it out for long rides with the right tires.

I also have a friend with a Kona Unit that he does a bunch of gravel/bikepacking with. He really likes it. There should be an opportunity to parking lot demo one if you can't find one in stock at a dealer.

ETA - the lower mainland is big enough you could well find an owner of one of those UK brand HTs who will let you sit on/parking lot demo their bikes for size.

^^ This

Vik sums it up well. Myself have ridden Chromag the old Samurai and and early Wideangle 27.5 in places "not designed for".  Done gravel `rides and rail trail on them and didn't notice them being not "XC enough" whatever that means. All on the same parts spec that would ride tech trails on the next day. 

Going rate for a frame new like an RSD Middlechild V2 your looking at about $950 for a frame only.  Not cheap. Though if you live in BC and the Lower Mainland area specifically good chance to find something used that meets what you want.

Personally if it was me and was in back in Vancouver. Once I had an idea what was looking for would search for a used hardtail that fits what am seeking. And change swap out the parts I don't like.

I was able to make a good sale on my Krampus and took advantage of discounts on a new Kona Unit, with the intent of improving geometry and wanting the adjustability of sliding dropouts to play with RC and give SS a try. I haven't weighed it yet (and don't worry too much about weight), it's on the heavy side but I would think that contributes to the smooth ride. I'm confident this will be a bike I keep long term. A few thoughts:

My understanding is the Unit is suspension corrected for 100mm fork, but a lot of people online are running 120-130. Stock fork is 470 A-C (as compared to 483 on Krampus/KM), so even after sag you'll probably be raising the front either way. Also keep in mind that you'll have to go to an EC bottom headset cup from the stock ZS, which will give you at least a few extra mm of stack height. Maybe consider an angle headset to help keep that front low.

I was a little surprised at how short the rear end is - With sliders at the short end the stock 2.6 tire is against the seat tube. Frame size large, but it appears the rear triangle is consistent across sizes. Seems like a waste of slider length, unless you're running a significantly smaller rear tire, or going 27.5 (or mullet).

Unit/P2 fork seems a little anemic compared to the rigid Krampus/KM fork. I'm getting a little braking flutter on the fork that I never (noticeably) experienced on the Krampus. I am over 200lbs and this was at the end of bedding in Maguras in my driveway, so may be less of an issue on the trail or for smaller riders. Not an issue if you're swapping the fork anyway.

I would have gone frame only if I was able to find one available, but the deal I got on the complete Unit was good enough that I'll just throw on a few parts I have sitting around and replace/upgrade the rest when needed.

Since the Kona Unit X was brought up. Same frame two different builds. Note one build these guys are using is going into technical alpine riding.

https://bikepacking.com/bikes/kona-unit-x-dream-builds/

Posted by: MarineMountaineer

Although not as xc as you probably want, I love my steel Norco Torrent as a do it all bike.

I cannot WAIT for summer to test the bike packing chops of my Japhy.

Posted by: Hepcat

Was at the shop test riding commuter bikes yesterday, yes steel is heavy but the differences in ride quality is unmistakable from the moment the tires hit the tarmac. 

I hear soft riding aluminum frames exist, but maaan I have tried or owned a large number of them over the years and every one of them felt like it was rattling my fillings loose. 

Aluminum full suspension however is sublime.

My aluminum enigma is MUCH smoother than either of my chromags were. 

The rear dropouts look like this:

The seatstay bridge looks like this:

Both of these CNCd components are specifically designed for compliance. 

It makes a big difference.

Plus it looks lovely. Nice work Banshee. My buddy just bought one of those, haven't seen it yet. 🤩

https://nsmb.com/articles/banshee-enigma/

For a moment there I was thinking Enigma bikes since it looks so fancy hahah. Things have evolved eh, been many years since the Banshees I owned.

https://www.enigmabikes.com/collections/the-collection

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Hepcat

Was at the shop test riding commuter bikes yesterday, yes steel is heavy but the differences in ride quality is unmistakable from the moment the tires hit the tarmac. 

I hear soft riding aluminum frames exist, but maaan I have tried or owned a large number of them over the years and every one of them felt like it was rattling my fillings loose. 

Aluminum full suspension however is sublime.

My aluminum enigma is MUCH smoother than either of my chromags were. 

The rear dropouts look like this:

The seatstay bridge looks like this:

Both of these CNCd components are specifically designed for compliance. 

It makes a big difference.

Enigma are UK based aren't they?

Did you just take a chance and order sight-unseen?