2011 BoXXer World Cup
Long Term Update
Words by Mike Wallace.
Date: 2011-12-05
Way back in February we did a full test of the 2011 BoXXer World Cup. Read it again here. We promised we would follow up with long term update after the season was done. Riding the Park (capitalized like G in God) is easily the best way to test a forks durability and small bump compliance. With durability and small bump compliance being my two BoXXer World Cup performance questions, the summer in the Park was key to the long term test.
I also took the time to ride a couple other of the latest high performance forks released this year which helped me to put the World Cup BoXXer Performance in perspective.
Mike dropping in to Sex Girl on Cypress.
I can say that hands down, the 2011 version has been the most dependable BoXXer I have ever ridden. Not once this year did I ever have the slightest seal leakage. The wet early summer (with less dust) may have helped but still we all know the grit in the park loves to eat seals. I also had no issues with the adjustment knobs this year. It seemed with previous models there was always some issue with a knob sticking or simply not wanting to turn.
The fork still requires regular servicing to keep it feeling plush. It seems like every year the riding time between services is extended a little. However the changes I would say are not super significant. If you get 10 days in the park without an oil change then you are doing really well. So you either need to learn to drop the lowers and change the lubricants yourself or be prepared to hand over 50 to 60 bucks to your LBS on a regular basis.
Riding Mystery DH on Cypress. Small bump compliance isn't a big requirement here on the Shore, nor is it easy to test, so we sent Mike to Whistler.
My only real complaint about the 2010 World Cup BoXXer – tested here - was the lack of small bump compliance. For 2011 SRAM made some changes which were to improve this. The Rock Shox Solo Air assembly had the o-ring face seal removed on the piston head and replaced by a Schrader valve. The function of these is to equalize the air chambers at the top out position. The idea is that the valve is more durable and easier to maintain than the seal as well as providing less travel stiction. On the rebound side the ports on the rebound piston were opened up to allow more oil flow and therefore prevent any damping effect. The compression is meant to only be provided by the Mission Control DH Compression Damper unit.
You never know when you are going to appreciate a light fork.
On the North Shore where there is no shortage of roots, rocks and holes, the small bump compliance with the 2011 was great. Pushing hard down Mystery Downhill on Cypress or Neds on Seymour the fork feels amazing with its combination of lightness, stiffness and suppleness. On Whistler the braking bumps are more of a challenge for any fork, however I did find that the 2011 small bump compliance was improved over the 2010. I ran the fork rebound fairly fast this year which has helped a little as well. I must admit I was a believer that the only way to improve on the small bump compliance was to use a coil sprung fork. After a few months on a top of the line coil fork I can now say that the air sprung BoXXer World Cup's small bump performance has been improved to the point where a coil offers little or no improvement.
Mike being out-boosted by his son Ben on Aline.
The one somewhat minor complaint I have about the 2011 cherry red BoXXer is that the paint seems to chip very easily. Either that or the red colour shows the chips more. Standing in the Whistler line up I could see others are having the same issues. This is going to be a problem for anyone who is trying to get maximum resale value out of their fork when they sell it.
What this all means is that the only real knock now against high performance air sprung forks is the extra service required. In my opinion the extra service is totally worth the trouble. This fork is light, (silly light) stiff, super tuneable and the performance on all types of terrain is great. It is absolutely no wonder why these forks are so popular with both racers and weekend warriors with deep pockets.
The 2011 BoXXer World Cup weighs in at Weight 2714g (5.98 lbs).
MSRP in Canada was $2495 but at this point in the season you should be able to pick one up for under $1500. Dunbar Cycles has the 2011 BoXXer World Cup on for $1269 right now in fact.
Have you spent the season no a BoXXer World Cup or another BoXXer? Was your experience similar to Mike's? Spill below.
Comments
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when he says he test rode several other hi end forks to compare against which models/years were they ??
just curious.
One is a Kashima 40 that he is testing. I'm not sure about the other(s) .
small bump compliance may help mitigate fatigue for banging out park laps, but for a high-end race fork is it as important? firm is fast? guess it depends on how you're using the fork. target audience for this fork isn't park rats.
i'd rather ride a 888 in the park, compression can be run mushy (if brake bumps make you sad) and service intervals are long.
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Originally Posted by clarklewis
(Post 2595567)
small bump compliance may help mitigate fatigue for banging out park laps, but for a high-end race fork is it as important? firm is fast? guess it depends on how you're using the fork. target audience for this fork isn't park rats.
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I almost laughed when I saw that 10 days at the 'P'ark you are doing well. Not because I'm surprised, since my 2010 never did that 'well'. It blows me away that people have been convinced that this is acceptable. Ohhhh I see, it's a 'race' fork. Seriously, how much slower are you going to be with another 100ml or so of oil to make it open bath and maintenance free? It takes oil to make a fork feel plush for two full years without an oil change and these forks don't have much and that's why they last closer to four days at the park before they start losing performance. Anyone whos name isn't on a world cup start list is kidding themselves if they think running a fork that weighs a couple of hundred grams more is going to cost them more than hundredths of a second.
But I guess Sram is giving the market the product it wants. If racer boys in pajamas feel faster because their fork is rough, light and maintenance heavy, then I guess they'll just tuck their jersey's in and deal with the maintenance program.
I like quite a bit of low speed compression. Can a new RC3 EVO marz be set up to be firm in the low speed but not a jackhammer when you actually hit a rock?
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Originally Posted by cam@nsmb.com
(Post 2595545)
One is a Kashima 40 that he is testing. I'm not sure about the other(s) .
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Originally Posted by Cheez1ts
(Post 2595677)
Does he have any initial comments on the 40 in comparison to the Boxxer WC yet? I'm hoping to pick up a new fork for my park bike this winter and any words of experience are helpful. The Boxxer WC doesn't look like a bad choice, but I'm also interested in the 40, especially with a ti spring.
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+/-'s sort of thing.
if i were replacing my DH fork tomorow i'd kinda like to have a fresh look into some real world experiences with each companies offering.
esp a carbon Dorado vs. Kashima 40 vs. boXXer WC.
I have a WC boxxer and It did have some issues in the beginning with blown rebound (warrenty) and seals but over all I really like the performance of the fork. I think for park use though that a coil version would be a better bet.
Since when is 10 park days between overhauls considered "good" ?
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Originally Posted by JLW124
(Post 2595739)
Since when is 10 park days between overhauls considered "good" ?
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I was told by a little bird that World Cup racers gut their World Cup Boxxer forks and drop springs into them. Race or RC2 I think with World Cup stickers.
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Originally Posted by JLW124
(Post 2595739)
Since when is 10 park days between overhauls considered "good" ?
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;)
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Originally Posted by JLW124
(Post 2595739)
Since when is 10 park days between overhauls considered "good" ?
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thres a reason why gear/bike makers test stuff out in the park..cuz it'll kill stuff in a right hurry if its not up to snuff
I agree the park is tough on a bike, moreso than just about anywhere. But why can a 888 can go 30 days at the park, 3 days at Mt7, 2 days at Fernie, 45 days in Squamish and have squeaky clean oil, perfect seals, no stiction and pretty much no reason to service it other than it's winter (still not going to bother anyway)? My stanchions didn't even wear out like my last two Boxxers and my 40.
The maintenance requirements of Boxxers and 40s cannot be excused by saying the bike park is hard on stuff. Some companies actually make stuff that holds up. Take Santa Cruz's new angular contact pivots for example as well. A full season that compares to three for many people elsewhere and they are tight and smooth. This wasn't achieved by slapping in crap hardware with poor design to save 200g and calling it a race bike. You can achieve durability and function for very little weight, but this obsession with weight as the number one factor hasn't done anyone any favors. I would love to see a blind test of people doing back to back runs with a little 200g weight attached to their bike and see if it makes them rip a course any faster. I bet a skin suit and removing your visor would make more of a difference.
If Fox came out with a new rear shock that spewed oil, wore out shafts and felt gummy, with crap small bump compliance and needing servicing every 10 days at the park, would they be able to convince everyone that it's a 'race shock' and it is worth the trade off to save 1-200g? Essentially that's what they've done with forks. Don't accept it; it's bullsh!t and we deserve better for close to $2K for a fork.
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Originally Posted by IFO
(Post 2596049)
to the rest/most of the MTB world 10 days worth of riding the Whistler bike park is WAYY more miles/suspension cycles then the ave. rider puts on a bike/gear in a year easily..
thres a reason why gear/bike makers test stuff out in the park..cuz it'll kill stuff in a right hurry if its not up to snuff |
Mark said that if you made it 10 days you'd be doing well, I suspect it's actually much less than that.
With my Fox 36 I would say there was noticeable seal leakage and increase in stiction after 3 full days in the park. I'm pretty skeptical about any semi-bath fork being happy there after 10.
I agree with Kram that the current (exc. Marzocchi) "barely lubricated to save some weight" fork design paradigm is fairly ridiculous and I can't believe we as riders are eating it up. In summer the Whistler lift line is full of bikes with leaky seals and worn stantions on their 40s and Boxxers. Are all these riders clueless, or have they just given up? I don't know but I think the maintenance requirements are way excessive for the average park rider.
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Originally Posted by Jeff M
(Post 2596153)
10 days in the park is lots of riding no doubt (for me a set of DH tires is looking pretty roasted after 10 park days), but a DH fork should be designed with park riding in mind right?
Mark said that if you made it 10 days you'd be doing well, I suspect it's actually much less than that. With my Fox 36 I would say there was noticeable seal leakage and increase in stiction after 3 full days in the park. I'm pretty skeptical about any semi-bath fork being happy there after 10. I agree with Kram that the current (exc. Marzocchi) "barely lubricated to save some weight" fork design paradigm is fairly ridiculous and I can't believe we as riders are eating it up. In summer the Whistler lift line is full of bikes with leaky seals and worn stantions on their 40s and Boxxers. Are all these riders clueless, or have they just given up? I don't know but I think the maintenance requirements are way excessive for the average park rider. |
fanboyism, heresay, anecdotes, and bogus facts dominate consumer behaviour
I don't think the riders in the WBP lines with half dead forks are clueless, they'd just rather be riding than waiting for their bike to be serviced. When I learned that I had to schedule an appointment to get my Fox fork serviced, I ordered a Marzocchi 66 Ti and left the fox fork in a pile of rubbish in my garage. The Fox fork is lighter and when it's working right felt OK, but who wants to be waiting around for servicing when you could be out riding.
i put down 40 days in the park this summer, on a 32mm boxxer with the avalanche kit installed. after 10 days i did a full rebuild, it was a used fork when i got it. so new oil(couldnt find good stuff had to run motorex), seals, and bushings. after 20 days of riding, the oil had broken down, it would foam faster, and the fork felt softer on both compression and rebound. so fresh oil was put in. after the next 10 days the bushings started to get sloppy again, but still not even a drop from the seals.
only getting 10 days out of a top end product is kinda lame, for the price it should come with its own service team.
and clarklewis is right for the most part, a fork firm enough to handle fast hard hits when your realy pinning it, normaly feels like crap on the small bumps. but with a good shimmed damper you should be able to get both, and be able to keep it from diving on lips and bearm. this is super important in whistler with long days, long runs, and a wide variety of trails.
Remove the std oil seals and run fox foam seals in place and some slick honey under the std dust seals, Motorex 15wt in the lowers and shes pure butter, almost Zocchi like but still ready to race. You'll need to maybe up your SR on the Team and maybe some adj to the WC air or LSC/HSC as it ups the sensitivity for sure.
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Originally Posted by Guest
(Post 2596473)
Remove the std oil seals and run fox foam seals in place and some slick honey under the std dust seals, Motorex 15wt in the lowers and shes pure butter, almost Zocchi like but still ready to race. You'll need to maybe up your SR on the Team and maybe some adj to the WC air or LSC/HSC as it ups the sensitivity for sure.
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Originally Posted by Kram
(Post 2596681)
"but still ready to race". Meaning a 888 that's lighter than a 40 isn't? Actually you could be onto something; how can a 888 be a race fork if you don't have to service it? Must be a freeride fork.
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Low maintenance and durability are key, engineeringwise a superior product: RS Domain RC DC. Air is good to breath but not for much else...
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