How Not To Do It
Video Dissection
Words by Seb Kemp.
Date: 2011-11-24
It all started with a Tweet.
Isn’t the information super highway so wonderful even though it isn’t a highway, not even a super one anymore. It’s something a lot less Smokie and the Bandit and something quite remarkably immersive. As recently as ten years ago I remember being told about a web that would allow us to feast on boundless information and I didn’t quite understand it. I just knew that my new email account was like a really swift fax machine. Now look at us, this Infobahn is all around us. Literally all around us because it is ever-present in an invisible broadcast waves of magic that allows us to be connected to it at all times. Cordless connectivity at all times in modern society.
Anyway, I wasn’t really here today to lose my mind in a mind-bending and mindless tautological gymnastics routine. Instead I wanted to talk about the act of communication. I want to talk specifically about one misguided act of communication. But first this internet B-road starts with a Tweet.
Several days ago, whilst killing time scrolling through Twitter I saw one particular Tweet that had the word coaching in it. It caught my eye and I clicked away on it and whoosh-bang I was transported at the velocity of a teenager’s speeding fist to a place far, far away. All whilst I was sitting still. Amazing. The place I was virtually flung to, down the shimmering freeway of binary bizarreness was a little video called ‘Vito Sport and BikeRidersUnited ‘How-to’: Drops’. I love coaching videos. I especially like coaching videos when they are done by professional riders. The reason I enjoy them so much is because it is like watching Nightmare on Elm Street when you are twelve years old; it is scary, really, really scary. Hide behind the couch and don’t sleep for a week properly scary. Not all how-to videos are this nerve-racking, but every so often you get a really bone-chilling, blood fest shocker.
I wasn’t disappointed with this one. This was the mother lode of under pant filling, hair-raising, harrowing coaching advice. It was like watching one of those crazy Eastern European films which are full of strobe light editing and seemingly disjointed imagery where one moment the main character is talking to his mother in a poppy field and the next minute there is footage of cavorting veiled virgins writhing in a black lit room as a sort of monster with the head of a carrot and fingers made of bus tickets licks the bloody body of the main character’s mother. In just the same way, this coaching video was scary and really perplexing.
Like I said at the start of this allegory stuffed mess it all started with a Tweet. And not the one that alerted me to this horror flick. The Tweet that really started it all was one by myself that, as tactfully as I could, pointed out that I thought this video was a rather poor coaching video. Nothing too slanderous or menacing. Just a little guff of Twitterism into the packed elevator that is the World Wide Willy (Warmer). However, someone actually read my twatty 140 character middle finger to the wind and approached me (via the internets that is) to ask why I thought this particular video was so bad.
Well, I planned on giving this chap a clear and concise explanation of my displeasure but as you may gather from the long winded lead into this story, the only thing I do briefly is anything that requires me to be dressed in only my briefs. Or less.
So I started crafting a quick email to this inquisitive fellow but by the time I finished the sky had gone dark and my cup of tea had gone cold. I began by trying to succinctly outline the major errors in the video and how I believed it should of perhaps been presented. However, what came out the other end of my keyboard and which I attempted to jam into the cyberspace of this chap's email in-box ended up having more in common with the Norco Distribution catalogue.
I figured that a problem shared is a problem halved. So here it is. My constructive criticism and long-drawn-out dissection of what I think is a great example of why how-to videos need far more care than they receive. Hopefully throughout the course of reading this you will be encouraged to seek the help of a real life dedicated coach that speaks to you face-to-face and not through the glowing Jobsian windowpane in front of you.
Please understand one thing before we go any further, I respect Martyn Ashton hugely as a professional rider and my discourse is not meant as an attack on anyone in particular who was part of the production of this video. Rather I am burning them on an internet stake in order to make anyone else wary of making a mockery of a coach's business. That doesn’t sound very nice does it? Well, sugar is nice. Sugar goes in tea. I’d be crap in a cup of tea. That’s reasonable reasoning isn’t it? But all jokes aside, by writing this I hope to outline why you can’t substitute proper coaching undertaken by a qualified and experienced coach with a video beamed onto your information superhighway carriage.
Before I go on I should add that I have my IDP levels One and Two from the Whistler Bike Park/Terramethod program and I have coached in New Zealand and BC, including several seasons in the Whistler Bike Park for WBP and other companies.
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Let me just recap Martyn’s coaching and I’ll add notes to each part. That way we keep it clear and ordered. I would suggest you watch the video first before reading any further. It helps to be educated about the uneducated.
Rolling drop
Step One: “Approach slowly and let the front commit.”
Let the front wheel commit? Shouldn’t it be the rider who commits? Or maybe some people's front wheels have a life of their own. More so, how does the rider commit? This point is rather vague. It appears he is saying that riders should just let the bike carry them off the drop and zero rider input is required.
Step Two: “Lean back and as the speed of the bike quickens commit your weight into it so you are in the right position to roll out of the bottom. Compress your knees and just roll through it.”
Again, how vague this seems. But let’s start from the start of step two. Lean back? Really is that what Martyn is doing? Really? Watch the video again.
What happens is that Martyn stands in a neutral position but with his shoulders over the bars a little and lowers his body as front wheel leads over the drop. This is the committing part he talks about in Step One and rather than leaning back he is leaning forward slightly. Which is correct as there needs to be control over the front wheel, and the way to do this is with weight. As the front wheel rolls over the drop the riders arms extend away from them to “lead” the front wheel over the drop. You are effectively pushing the bike away from your mass momentarily but first you are not leaning back, but leaning into the roll.
Then as the rear wheel begins moving upwards in relation to the body as the body moves down the drop. What he is doing is absorbing the force of the rear wheel moving upwards by flexing his legs until the rear wheel passes the lip of the drop. This is the compressing of the knees Martyn talks about and the “just roll through it” is where he extends the legs to “lead” the rear wheel down to the landing.
Instead how about this:
1. Approach the drop in the neutral position.
2. Speed should be no more than walking pace.
3. As you approach the drop, shift shoulders slightly forward over the handlebar. This allows a clearer look over the drop and provides the basis for a greater range of movement for subsequent steps. Keep looking past the edge of the drop to the landing area
4. Lead the front wheel down the drop by extending the arms and pushing the bike ahead of you down the drop.
5. The body should be lowered by flexing the legs and absorbing as the rear wheel moves upward in relation to the body.
6. As the rear wheel comes off the drop, extend the legs to “lead” the rear wheel down to the landing.
Flying drops…is that the name this should be given?
“The difference between rolling a drop and flying off it is the pace you do it at. To fly off the drop you have to make sure you are going quick enough. There’s nothing worse than not having enough speed, you go off too slow. You get the front up but you haven’t got the pace to hold it up and it drops and you have this steep drop onto the front wheel.”
Speed is not the answer. You can not take elementary movements like drops and explain them to beginners or novices by saying that they need speed. Firstly, not everyone is comfortable at speed, especially when they are learning. Secondly, not everyone is capable of achieving speed, especially when they are learning. And thirdly, it is not at all about the speed of the bike in relation to the drop, but rather the efficiency of the dynamic movement that a rider puts into the bike. Let me explain.
Step One: “You gotta go nice and fast, really commit to it and make a quick decision about it meters before you fly off it. Weight back, arms nice and strong. As it goes out get ready to absorb the landing. And as long as you are ready it don’t matter about the landing much. Forget about it, just be ready for it. Just ride out nice and fast. Most important thing is committing and going nice and fast.”
Where to start with this one. This whole paragraph is a car crash. Sorry, multiple bike crashes waiting to happen.
First speed: beginners, are not always able or willing to go fast and often don’t have the timing and coordination that is required to do this technique when everything is moving fast. They also don’t have the pressure control, or range of motion required to do what Martyn is saying. You have to keep things slow. Start small, start on the ground doing lunges on the flat ground to get them to dial in their timing, coordination and the dynamic movement required of this technique.
Try telling a petite timid novice woman to just go fast at a drop and have “arms nice and strong”. It won’t work. Trust me. However, that same timid woman can be taught to do excellent drops.
One good thing Martyn alludes to is “make a quick decision about it meters before you fly off it”, which is referred to as the Point of Commitment. This is an imaginary line that the rider builds into their approach to a drop (or any obstacle on a trail, be it a jump, a rock garden, a roll over, and root section). This imaginary line is the point at which a rider can slow down and safely stop before the drop if they second guess. At this point the rider must know that if they second guess and perhaps touch their brakes or pedal going off the drop they will be negatively influencing the dynamics of themselves over the bike and setting themselves up for potential failure. Imagine pedaling up the face of a jump, or braking as your wheel takes off from the drop. It is not going to be good. So coaches encourage riders to always be building Points of Commitment into their trails. It is a safety thing. Martyn alluded to this but didn’t explain it.
“Weight back, arms nice and strong.”
Weight back? Really? So he is expecting people to hang off the back of their bikes as they go off the drop? Just consider what this might do to the bike. What he is trying to say (and I say this because looking at the video it is exactly what his body is doing even if his mouth isn’t communicating it) is that you should be pushing the bike FORWARDS. Yes, that is right, forwards. That way it is accelerating the bike in relation to the body. You don’t need to go fast, you need to be able to forcefully and positively accelerate the bike in front of you. This will stop what Martyn talks about when he says, “You get the front up but you haven’t got the pace to hold it up and it drops and you have this steep drop onto the front wheel.”
You are not trying to manual off the drop – that could lead to rear wheel landings, flipping over the back of the bike and does not translate as safe or efficient for larger drops. What you are attempting is to push the bike outwards straight ahead in order to decrease the amount of time that the rear wheel remains on the drop. Use your arms to do this but also flatten your back and use the power in your thighs to do the same. The power in your thighs is much greater than your arms. It is to be noted that the slower your are rolling the more push you need to do.
As I said earlier, treat the movement like the finishing line lunge at the Tour De France. At first practice on flat ground to get the range of movement. Then etch a line in the dirt and introduce the timing and coordination required. Use a curb perhaps.
Using this dynamic lunge technique (also known as the Peek and Push) works for anyone. This eradicates the need for speed and instead puts the emphasis on the rider input. And don’t just think this is a beginner technique; today whilst riding on Fromme I came across a sudden drop off a rock and I had no speed but the lunge helped me. Even Wade Simmons used the same technique.
Step two: “As it goes out get ready to absorb the landing. And as long as you are ready it don’t matter about the landing much. Forget about it, just be ready for it. Just ride out nice and fast.”
It doesn’t matter about the landing? Really? So landing front wheel heavy is O.K.? Landing on your back wheel is O.K.? Forget about it AND be ready for it? At the same time? How is it possible to forget about anything AND be ready for it? Weird. Ride out nice and fast? What does that mean? Hit the ground and start pedaling? Start pedaling before you land? Perhaps it means don’t slow down in the air. This whole section is a shambles.
The correct way should be an extension of the rolling drop technique. We call it a Lunge Drop or the Peek and Push Technique.
How about this:
1. Approach in neutral position. Speed at jogging pace before reaching Point of Commitment – Note that you should be able to demonstrate to students that with a powerful and full lunge you should be able to do the drop at almost no speed at all. So long as the drop does not have a gap. But then you won’t be teaching on a gap to drop class beginners. Speed is not the key, a full range of movement and timing is.
2. As you approach drop shift shoulders slightly forward over bars. Load and compress down into the bike just before the drop. This will help unweight (not lift) when you leave the drop. This is the PEEK.
3. Keep looking past the edge of the drop to the landing area.
4. Just before the edge of the drop (approx 4 inches back) lunge the bike straight ahead in order to decrease the amount of time that the rear wheel remains on the drop. Rather than using the very edge of the drop, this allows a small margin for timing error. Something that is quite common when learning.
5. As the riders mass pushes the bike in front, it will lower in relation to the bike and the rear wheel will begin to rise in relation to the rider. Absorb the rear wheel by bending the legs until it passes over the edge of the drop.
6. As your arms are extended look through them to spot landing still. When off the drop, extend arms and legs to match the bike's angle to the landing, and move to be more centered over the middle of the bike and absorb any impact from landing. This is putting the landing gear down and having legs and arms poised. Flexed in readiness not locked straight.
Try to land both wheels simultaneously.
In the end it is all simple physics rather than magic and guessing games. However, it isn’t rocket science. Or indeed, sprocket science.
To add one last point, as you can see Martyn’s riding technique is very good. However, it is the way he thinks it is broken down and the terminology that he explains it in that is totally off kilter. How he does the drops and how he explains them are totally at odds with each other. Communication is the key to good coaching. A good coach is a good rider but also a great communicator.
My explanations may use some technical language but that is simply for the benefit of writing it down. Firstly you need common terms so that everything is clear. Secondly, if I was explaining these techniques to someone and I felt they would not benefit from using such language then I would switch to using terminology and metaphors that they would commonly understand. When I am teaching drops in this style I refer (as does most of the coaching industry) to Lunge Drops or the Peek and Push Technique, and often when explaining the dynamic movement to students I will refer to it as the Finish Line Push. You know, the last push that cyclists do when they are crossing the finishing line to accelerate their bikes and win. Yes win. Cause that’s what we are going to achieve when we learn to do drops safely and correctly. [insert cheesy finger gun salute]
It is irresponsible for uneducated and unqualified riders to give out advice just so they can advertise their sponsor's goods if the coaching is sub-par. This video is simply a way of advertising an automobile and the riders' other sponsors. It is sad that bad coaching should accompany it.
I hope not to be negative towards the people behind the video, but rather point out the wrongdoings, or at least the miscommunicated information. I hope this illustrates that there is a big difference between having a coach who has learnt the correct teaching techniques and spent time learning how to communicate them and a well meaning professional who may be a great rider but not a coach.
If more people spent time and money with a good coach rather than on the Chain Reaction website or Pinkbike they might end up becoming much better, safer riders who can have more fun. It burns me when I see a bad video like this.
Thanks and credit has to go to Mike Johnstone from TerraMethod and the IDP that he has developed. Some of the information contained above was gleaned from his manuals.
There are more and more coaching organizations springing up each year. At present there is no governing body for the standardization of teaching coaches but there are some quite excellent coaching organizations. Those that I have direct experience of and who I highly recommend would be Paul at Zep Techniques, Darren Butler and his cast of excellent coaches at Endless Biking and selected coaches at the Whistler Bike Park. Amongst those on the WBP staff I would suggest looking for Mike Johnstone and Ken Doraty. They are both highly experienced, knowledgeable and approachable.
If you'd like to see the video to which I'm referring again, or if you missed it the first time, click here...
Was Seb a little harsh? I would bet that a lot of the blame must be pointed at the producers of the video. They were likely more concerned about length and the presentation of the vehicle than about any useful coaching. Your thoughts below...
Comments
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that was way too wordy dude.
I only got to the third paragraph and then i scrolled down......
TL;DR
That video wasn't so bad. I liked the leafy skid bonus footage!
The fluidride "ride like a pro" dvd is actually pretty good.
Except the guy always says "bicycle" instead of "bike". It gets annoying once you notice it.
That video was bad. It assumes the rider already has some concept of the basics of riding a bike, such as separating your body from the bike, proper brake technique, weight distribution, and the list goes on and on....Seb is certainly correct in saying there is no substitute for proper coaching. People need to know proper coaching methodology exists. The benefits of following it are wonderful for people who have skill and especially for those who are just beginning. Poorly executed training videos serve only to muddy perceptions of what proper coaching really is and can help one achieve.
Ahaha, win! I don't think he's harsh the video was fun, but they should feel bad if a beginner throws in the towel on drops solely because of.
You get what you pay for.
Fluidride like a pro is one of the more through videos(only know because I watched a bit on the utuber). I also have Leech's MTAOT and man they say a picture is worth a thousand words, but I think it's probably worth 5 thousand or so in that case.
Thanks for breaking it down Seb! This how-to was especially bad. The roll-down was a skill that changed my riding after I took an Endless Biking program. Now as an instructor I repeatedly see the confidence it provides other's while they ride.
Ones career as a Mountain Biker is relative. It can be hard to analyze yourself and compare your riding to the pros. At the same time a pro rider can struggle to analyze what they do on a bike, to them it's second nature.
Nothing replaces having a knowledgable coach provide you with feedback and instruction. I've learned and continue to learn a ton from Darren and Kelli at Endless Biking. Investing in your riding is worth it.
Hey Seb,
You take a while to get there but what you say is bang on.
Well done for speaking up.
R
Ok, I admit I didn't make it all the way through but I can appreciate the value of proper instructions. The phrase I got when I ask my - non professional/amateur instructor type - friend how to do the GLC drops was "just roll into it". That moment in time is forever burned into my memory as I realized there was a bit more too it than that.
I read Seb's writeup on his blog when Darren linked to it, and while it was super long, I did end up reading all of it. I'm feeling the urge to get some coaching training under my belt.
Endless Plug here......................and here.............
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Originally Posted by onegearpony
(Post 2592272)
That video was bad. It assumes the rider already has some concept of the basics of riding a bike, such as separating your body from the bike, proper brake technique, weight distribution, and the list goes on and on....Seb is certainly correct in saying there is no substitute for proper coaching. People need to know proper coaching methodology exists. The benefits of following it are wonderful for people who have skill and especially for those who are just beginning. Poorly executed training videos serve only to muddy perceptions of what proper coaching really is and can help one achieve.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, it all boils down to 2 pieces of advice:
1. go faster
2. grow some balls
Everything else is just blablabla.
Well, I want to react on the introductory part of the article. I am from Eastern Europe, but never noticed the "full of strobe light editing and seemingly disjointed imagery" films. Please let me know about any of them which are eastern european, not american taking place in eastern europe. Anyway I usually do not comment or taking part in discussions on web, but this time I had to. I enjoy whole article (except the E.E. movies part) altough it is quite long.
Greetings from Slovakia!
Onegearpony... In a sport where most learn from just getting out on their bike perhaps the best ideology is to ride your bike! Find a curb and move up in height as you feel comfortable. If you need a coach to hold your hand you aren't passionate enough to learn it for yourself!
I have been watching pro riders hurt people for years and years, still year after year they get hired.
Lots of crappy coaches out there too kids.
I have had the pleasure of working with people that have had pretty much every coach available and that gets messy in its own right.
I believe in long term coaching rather than instruction.
I can't count the amount of times I have run across someone that has had their "jump" training, or "drop" progression. Its often scary what they have been taught( edit: or how they have interpreted it".
While I am stoked on all the available training for instructors, I wonder why companies feel its important to churn out loads of instructors every year.
In my 10 years of teaching I have seen less than 10 coaches/instructor/guides that I would recommend.
Taking a weekend course and getting a piece of paper does not make an instructor.
Yes people notice the difference, I hear about it all the time.
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Originally Posted by SIDESHOW
(Post 2592545)
...
I can't count the amount of times I have run across someone that has had their "jump" training, or "drop" progression. Its often scary what they have been taught( edit: or how they have interpreted it". While I am stoked on all the available training for instructors, I wonder why companies feel its important to churn out loads of instructors every year. In my 10 years of teaching I have seen less than 10 coaches/instructor/guides that I would recommend. Taking a weekend course and getting a piece of paper does not make an instructor. Yes people notice the difference, I hear about it all the time. |
It's an important point you mention about interpretation. Sometimes people are put on the spot "how do you teach this and that?' Every scenario is different and one may be thinking of expert level rider and other person may be thinking of teaching someone at beginner level etc (in conversation). Clarity is key.... so is context. :)
Which is why there is a proven need for Instructor Training, so that people can be teaching with some level of consistency throughout industry. This vid is case in point. Some level of consistency and foundation is how sport will grow, instead of having every coach teach something different and disputing this and that. One could then pick up things from different coaches in other geographic areas, each pro instructor likely has a unique perspective and area of expertise.
Instructor Training is required for insurance, for employment and many people actually take these courses without a desire to become a coach or instructor. It's not about companies 'feeling a need' to pump out more Instructors each year. It's about insurance, employment opportunities and demand. We won't hire someone without any training, would you?
2.5 day Instructor Training courses are a threshold what people can manage in terms of cost, travel, time off work etc. We both know these could be much longer! Not very many people can afford a 2-4 week Instructor development program...
Just because you finish school, doesn't mean you are any good, it's only part of the package. It's a great tool and some can flourish with it, others just get started. Look at other industries, how many people with university degrees have jobs in other fields...?
Thanks again for sharing your perspective Cory, you've got some great experience to speak from.
That is all...
DB@EB
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Originally Posted by SIDESHOW
(Post 2592545)
I believe in long term coaching rather than instruction.
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Originally Posted by SIDESHOW
(Post 2592545)
Taking a weekend course and getting a piece of paper does not make an instructor.
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One thng I have thought of this year, Joely is in the process of doing her Level 4. It's interesting how from Level 3 and up the coaches have mentors as part of the process. When I asked her about if this would be helpful at the lower levels she said it would. To her it's something missing in the process.
i'm super out to lunch with respect to mtb instruction
I'm familiar with the ski side of things with separate designations for "instructors" and "coaches" - each with 4 levels. different levels correspond to different skill levels that can be taught. everything is super consistent - a level 3 instructor in quebec is the same as one in bc and so forth... all is done through one regulating body.
I assume that it is more laissez-faire in mtb??
The ski side of things is actually really good in my opinion. is that something that mtb is trying to move towards?
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Originally Posted by beeeom
(Post 2592566)
i'm super out to lunch with respect to mtb instruction
I'm familiar with the ski side of things with separate designations for "instructors" and "coaches" - each with 4 levels. different levels correspond to different skill levels that can be taught. everything is super consistent - a level 3 instructor in quebec is the same as one in bc and so forth... all is done through one regulating body. I assume that it is more laissez-faire in mtb?? The ski side of things is actually really good in my opinion. is that something that mtb is trying to move towards? |
The skiing model certainly gives some insight although it doesn't just transfer to mtb direclty, some massaging is certainly required, although lots of work has been flushed out here, no doubt. Although the sports are very similar, they do have some differences.
There are a few boats being rowed in regards to training... it would be great to all be in the same boat, paddling together. The 'governing body' is ultimately Sport Canada and the NCCP, which programs haven't been up to standard in the last 10 years, in the sense that it is geared towards competition and Olympic sports, whereas the 'instruction' side of things accommodates someone who wants to learn to corner better or learn drops for example, to learn specific skills that can be used recreationally or competitively.
Think about it, if we look at the big picture of a riders life cycle, 90% or more are 'recreationalists' doing it for fun, challenge themselves, whatever. Sure, they may do some racing along the way but most people ride for giggles and good times, fitness lifestyle etc, not to race their entire life. I know the NCCP has changed recently but our industry has seen almost everyone move away from that model unless working specifically in the racing field. This is where racers would certainly benefit from long-term coaching.
We have spent the greater part of the last 8 years trying to unify the 'Instructor Trainers' in the industry and stand united as one, so that we can all grow from it (IDP (Whistler Bike Park), MBIT (Endless Biking), PMBI (Zep Techniques), CMIC/IMIC (Joan Jones, Shaums March, even FluidRide (Simon Lawton) and Better Ride (Gene Hamilton) have been involved in this process at some point).
We will remain committed to this and we are still working hard in this regard, so that YOU will get really good coaching videos on NSMB.com etc, good instructors in your community and more consistency throughout our sport.
Bigger pies mean bigger slices for everyone! ;)
DB@EB
The passion to ride our bikes is what puts us here to begin with. The desire to get better is what drives people to seek out others to coach or inspire them. No matter how good you are, there is a coach out there who can show you a thing or two to help push you along (Aaron Gwin / John Tomac). A move to standardization in coaching is a huge step in the evolution of our sport. We (all of us) want more people on bikes more of the time. If you want to go it alone with no coaching that is just fine and dandy. I did it for 20 years before I had any coaching whatsoever. Looking back, I wish I had someone show me the things I know now 15 years ago, surely I would be a much better rider. I do have some instructor training now but I am only plugging the idea of real and proper coaching itself, not an organization or group in particular. The methodology not only serves to put a language around the things you may already know but also gives you the ability to convey the concepts in a format that is comprehendible, which, I think is the point of this entire thread. It is easy to get our heads stuck so far up our own rears we forget the real and tangible benefits coaching has for all of us, myself included. Let's face it, no one and I really mean, no one, reading this forum is too hard pressed to name someone that shreds harder than them and / or whose style they try to emulate.
instruction for yobs. maybe we're just not the target market and the lingo is actually spot on if your a UK soccer holligan.
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Originally Posted by Endless Biking
(Post 2592558)
Some level of consistency and foundation is how sport will grow, instead of having every coach teach something different and disputing this and that. |
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Originally Posted by Endless Biking
(Post 2592608)
There are a few boats being rowed in regards to training... it would be great to all be in the same boat, paddling together. The 'governing body' is ultimately Sport Canada and the NCCP, which programs haven't been up to standard in the last 10 years, in the sense that it is geared towards competition and Olympic sports, whereas the 'instruction' side of things accommodates someone who wants to learn to corner better or learn drops for example, to learn specific skills that can be used recreationally or competitively. |
And if one wants to get to the Olympc level. Most sports require about a level 3 or 4. It takes alot of work to get to that point and years of time in your sport.
Thankfully they replaced the NCCP with the CDEP. No more weekend wonders Though the one part I wish was part of the level 1 and 2 was having a mentor coach. It's required in level 4 and I believe level 3. I see how much having the 2 mentors Joely has been involved with over the last almost 6 years helps her. I was fortunate to have had Coach Ken who let me hang around when ever I had freetime.
Thank you for your detailed input. Your debunking and explanations are solid. I really appreciate Ryan Leech's how-to-s as he know how to communicate too. I just recently took umbrage with Sam Pilgrim's how-to-s. He is an excellent rider however, his communication is not up to snuff by any means of imagination. Keep it real and keep it quality!
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Originally Posted by enduramil
(Post 2592683)
Bit of a generalization. If one actually looks at the NCCP levels. Level one and 2 are primarily skill development with a focus on racing. ...
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Yes, you are right, a bit of a generalization but it's based on my experiences of taking these courses personally and the feedback of our staff who also attended.
I did not learn much/any real skill development, we only learned some drills and racing prep & drank a lot of coffee to stay awake. Our staff did not come back from these courses feeling better about teaching (coaching or instruction).
I trust & hope the course has improved since then.
DB@EB
NCCP is designed to be a base to build a coaching program/system.
Teaching skills is a small part of coaching. Most likely one of the smallest.
There are very few actual MTB coaches out there, instructors are a dime a dozen.
I have taken a bunch of the MTB certification courses and read and compared the manuals from others that i haven't. I have also interviewed various instructors and taken lessons from others.
The similarities between most of the coaching systems are endless.
Haha.
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Originally Posted by SIDESHOW
(Post 2593084)
NCCP is designed to be a base to build a coaching program/system.
Teaching skills is a small part of coaching. Most likely one of the smallest. There are very few actual MTB coaches out there, instructors are a dime a dozen. I have taken a bunch of the MTB certification courses and read and compared the manuals from others that i haven't. I have also interviewed various instructors and taken lessons from others. The similarities between most of the coaching systems are endless. Haha. |
You're right, skills are only part of the package for coaching but many people just want the skills to ride better with friends, family, reduce injuries, not to shave seconds off of time and work way to podium. There are some great Instructors out there too, there are not only dimes Cory...
It is important to be sure to consider the context of a textbook or manual too, many of them (including ours) is a supplement to the course, and not the actual course. If you were just reading the book, you likely won't 'get it' as the book is such a small portion of the course and not the course itself. I know others books are like this too.
As you can see folks, there are some good coaches and instructors out there and some not so good. Invest in yourself, give yourself a chance to develop and grow. Reap the rewards.
Hire a good coach or Instructor this year and your riding will improve, I guarantee it!
DB@EB
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Originally Posted by enduramil
(Post 2592673)
Unfortunately having consistency will not end this. It still continues. Some of it's about power and who has control. Some of it is their ego. You will also still get the whole.. " What a stupid way to teach that skill.. My way is better." Ugh...
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You will always have some variations in ways that things can be taught, we are all different learning types and no 2 corners are the same... So, we need to have some flexibility but we also need to strive for this consistency instead of just saying 'it will never work'. You can't climb a mountain by assessing how big it is but you can climb it one step at a time.
Having a consistent structure to use a a guideline will give one the knowledge and support to be able to adapt to the riders needs. A good instructor/coach can adapt and accomplish a goal with a rider in several different ways, based on their learning type and success and challenges.
It's not about power and ego at all, it's about a passion to see the sport grow.
DB@EB
ok DB, seeing as you did not take offense to my little joke I will say it,
I rarely hear any beef with the Endless Instructors from the people I work( have worked) with. It would seem that the EB crew does a pretty good job out there, and are my goto recommend....well when Shaumsy isn't around( most of the time lol).
I work with a lot of people that have been thru all the levels of current instruction. Wether it was with BetterRide, MMR, EB, or Zep etc.
People come to me for the next level. When someone has reached that plateau and needs serious digging( usually in the head) to reach the next level thats when my phone rings.
That is where instruction turns toward coaching. Coaches get emails at 2am from freaked out riders that are laying in bed having cold sweats, instructors do not. DB most likely does, being that he is an owner guy.
My point? Once you have taken all the lessons, and read all the books, if you are still craving more.....
Thats when you hire a coach. Coaches are hard to find and are pricy compared to instructors, but this pays off in a trust relationship. A good coach spends time getting to know you, and watching you over a longer period of time.
A good coach will send you to an instructor.
Think hockey, the head coach oversees the program and works with other coaches/instructors/trainers.
I turned down a whole group of women this summer because not one could do more than 10 pushups.
I did not want their money. I wanted them to be able to ride. I know that they are all working on their fitness and once I think they are strong enough I will teach them how to ride properly.
This pays no money to C4, but I think it has a longer term residual effect.
So how is this relevant to the og post and link on NSMB?
Even the best video, weekend course, coach, blah, blah will not teach you.
Patience will be your best friend.
Take your time out there, there are worse things to practice.....lolz
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Originally Posted by SIDESHOW
(Post 2593084)
The similarities between most of the coaching systems are endless. |
It always amazes me at level 1 how people who take the course think they have the knowledge. Looking back when i took my Tri coaches back in 2004 it's kind of funny. 30 people taking the course. 29 had only been competing for max 5 years. Thinking about it now how funny it is. When i think of coaches or instructors I think of people who have been at it for years. Who have experience not just a certificate.
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Originally Posted by SIDESHOW
(Post 2593115)
People come to me for the next level. When someone has reached that plateau and needs serious digging( usually in the head) to reach the next level thats when my phone rings. That is where instruction turns toward coaching. Coaches get emails at 2am from freaked out riders that are laying in bed having cold sweats, instructors do not. DB most likely does, being that he is an owner guy. |
Athlete's physically are capable of amazing things. The problem is the brain gets in the way. A rider has the skills to corner well for example yet can't because his fear gets in the way. That's what coaches spend so much time doing. Because really it's trying to get the athlete's brain to connect the synapses and do what the body is capable of.
having gone through PMBI Level 1, i look forward to the standardization of mtb instruction and although it is an ongoing battle, i believe it can happen and has to happen.
videos like the one dissected by seb are a problem, and i appreciate the thorough thrashing.
as per cory's coach/instructor distinction, i totally agree.
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Originally Posted by menehune
(Post 2593629)
having gone through PMBI Level 1, i look forward to the standardization of mtb instruction and although it is an ongoing battle, i believe it can happen and has to happen.
videos like the one dissected by seb are a problem, and i appreciate the thorough thrashing. as per cory's coach/instructor distinction, i totally agree. |
Yes, Cory did a very nice job articulated the coaching vs instruction. Thanks Cory.
DB@EB
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