Banshee Rampant Review
Can a 100mm Frame Do All?
Words by Garrett Thibault. Photos by Morgan Taylor and Logan Swayze.
Date: 2011-10-31
The Banshee Rampant isn’t hard to form a love-hate relationship with. I purchased my original frame a couple of years ago and fell in love with it right away. Since then I lost my love, regained it, broke the frame, tried replacing it with another bike, missed it, and reluctantly built up another Rampant. Through all of this, I enjoyed almost every minute of the 2 years I’ve spent riding this bike. The Rampant is heaps of fun to ride over all terrain—but it isn’t flawless.
This isn't everyone's idea of a do everything bike - but the right rider can make the Rampant sing to almost any tune. Photo ~ Morgan Taylor
The Rampant is classified as a 4x/DJ/slopestyle frame, but it is capable of so much more. The frame has not been altered since it 2008 when it first came out, and can be purchased new for around CAD$1600. It comes equipped with a capable Fox RP2 rear shock, a full length (350mm) seatpost, a bolted seat clamp, a spare derailleur hanger as well as few spare bushings. The hydroformed 7005 series aluminum frame uses IGUS bushings at the pivot points to keep the weight down (6.09 lbs or 2762g). Banshee uses their Virtual Floating Four Bar (VF4B) suspension system to achieve great looking lines and an excellent ride. ISCG-05 mounts, a 135mm rear end and a 1 1/8 head tube means finding parts for this frame is easy. Geometry wise the frame is low (330mm bb height with 100mm fork), out of the way and built for speed. It will accept a longer travel fork (140mm) which slackens the front end and makes it perfect for freeride.
That looks a little like a DH bike? Photo ~ Logan Swayze
The first thing you notice when you ride the Rampant is how quick and nimble it feels under your feet thanks to its light weight and minimal travel. By the end of your first trail you’ll likely check to see how much travel you used because you didn't feel it bottom out once. This is a result of the VF4B design, which allows the short amount of travel to ramp up the way a trail bike should. It is quite small bump compliant for a 4" travel bike, but then steadies out mid-stroke and right at the end it ramps up quickly to cushion the biggest hits. It allows riders to feel the trail without losing speed through rock gardens or rooty sections, encouraging better line choice and more speed. Of course a slopestyle frame like the Rampant is built for pumps and jumps. It will increase your speed on rollers and berms and provide a lot of confidence in the air, to the point where you will want to start moving the bike around beneath you.
Berms are right in the Rampant's wheelhouse - as expected. Photo ~ Logan Swayze
The Rampant is also a capable freeride frame that encourages you to learn the skills of a well rounded rider. Climbing on the Rampant is a cinch in part because of the pre-mentioned weight, but also because it doesn't bounce or wallow in its travel when the power is down, even with the pro-pedal turned off. Unfortunately there are no cable guides to run a front derailleur, so unless you run a Sram HammerSchmidt, you'll be stuck with one ring up front. Personally, I do not find the lack of a granny ring to be a problem and I’m happy enough climbing with a 32 tooth chainring in front and a 34 tooth cog in the rear. From fire roads to technical steeps, the Rampant is surprisingly enjoyable to climb.
A little Whistler boost on a little play bike. Photo ~ Logan Swayze
All bikes have negative traits, but they are hard to spot right away with the Rampant. Being a short travel bike, large drops or jumps to flat cause your body to absorb some of the hit -- but it does do a better job at softening the blow than other small travel frames I’ve ridden. So what’s the downside? The main flaw in this super fun machine is the lightweight bushings used at the pivot points. They require constant maintenance by injecting grease into a small grease port on the axle; the process requires a special adapter which is not included with the frame. The bushings wear into the axles and require replacement far more often than bearings. The bushings cost $50 a set and one axle costs $100 or more. I required four sets of bushings and two axles in one year of riding.
This looks like the Shore but there is a gap so it must be the Sunshine Coast. Photo ~ Morgan Taylor
I had so much play in the linkage from worn pivot axles that I sent it to Trident (Banshee’s Distributor) to see if there was something wrong with the frame. Within two days I received a call from them stating that my frame had a small crack in both the headtube weld and bottom bracket weld, and that they would replace my frame under warranty.
The Rampant tunes into CBC without any interference. Photo ~ Morgan Taylor
You can have a lot of fun on a wide variety of trails on the Rampant. From technical cross country to gnarly Whistler Bike Park, this bike is going to put a smile on your face when you’re riding it. Banshee offers this lightweight frame in a variety of appealing colours and has amazing customer service and a no-hassle two year warranty / life time crash replacement to go with it. The downfall is heavier or abusive riders may crack this frame or at the very least be shelling out for expensive replacement bushings. If Banshee were to build this bike using bearings instead of bushings and increase durability they would have an absolute home run on their hands.
The Rampant isn't your typical Shore bike - but Garrett isn't your typical Shore rider. Photo ~ Morgan Taylor
Performance/Durability/Functionality: Rides great, but doesn’t handle constant abuse or heavier riders without maintenance.
Features/Quality: A suspension system and properly finished frame design that is still competitive 4 years later.
Price: The initial price ($1600 CAD) is good and warranty is free (for two years), but replacement parts are expensive and a grease gun adapter is not included.
Summer on Schleyer. What could be better? Photo ~ Logan Swayze
| Thumbs Up: | - Lightweight makes it more fun to ride |
| - Banshee’s VF4B system provides an excellent ride and makes the most out of the small travel | |
| - Straight seat tube and ISCG-05 mounts mean it can be pedalled up hill | |
| - Excellent customer service from both Banshee and their Canadian distributor |
| Thumbs Down: | - Bushings wear out quickly, are expensive to replace and can cause further costly damage if left unchanged |
| - Cracked at the headtube weld and seat tube weld | |
| - Adapter for grease gun to fit grease ports is not included |
Do you think you could adapt a slopestyle bike - or the Banshee Rampant in particular - into a Swiss Army bike? What is your version of a do-it-all machine? Your thoughts below.
Comments
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Great first review Garrett!
Slopestyle bikes kill it as do it all bikes when built right. Need Prototype Slayer SS.......
I have a Banshee Wildcard, which was the heavier-duty, linkage-driven single pivot, longer travel slopestyle bike that preceded the Rampant. I think what Garrett wants is the bearing-based linkage of the Wildcard with the light weight of the Rampant.
They do play nice together!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6164/...10ba6f97_z.jpg
the bushing/axle problem is something all of the bikes with this design have. the cracking at the seat tube is something that also happens on these bikes. with a bearing upgrade and a tapered head tube this bike would be all time.
$400 a year in maintenance is insane. Those bushings are killing Banshee's rep.
If that was a bearing pivot frame "ala new nomad or intense ss" it would be a sweet short travel bike.The maintenance issue is a deal breaker,especially if you ride 3 or 4 times a week.
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Originally Posted by Guest
(Post 2583918)
the bushing/axle problem is something all of the bikes with this design have. the cracking at the seat tube is something that also happens on these bikes. with a bearing upgrade and a tapered head tube this bike would be all time.
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Originally Posted by Bryce
(Post 2583937)
$400 a year in maintenance is insane. Those bushings are killing Banshee's rep.
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$50 for a set of bushings is nuts. you can get them much cheaper, either direct from igus or from some banshee dealers. they were billed as a lighter and much cheaper, though more labor intensive, alternative to bearings - but if they're not holding up very long, and the costs are so inflated, this logic starts to break down
i think banshee is going all bearings on new designs, and has all of the current bushing models slated for bearing redesigns. but it's a small firm, so this is probably going to take a long time. i hope the bushing issue doesn't sink them
by the way garret that was a great review, honest and insightful, and the shots were excellent!
Thanks guys. I was really excited this morning when I saw that my review was up and I'm glad that you like it :D.
I didn't want to throw rumors into the review, but I have heard that bearings may be replacing the bushings for the 2013 Rune, Spitfire and Rampant. It would be an awesome upgrade in my opinion.
I've heard about bushings direct from Igus and understand that some shops may sell the Banshee bushings for less than $50, but when I asked my local Banshee dealer about them they said they paid $25 to have the bushings in the store and were told to sell them at $50. This was the price I paid and what I assume the average joe looking for Banshee replacement bushings would pay.
I've replaced the bushings on my Rune 3 times and 2 axles...not impressed! I ordered 4 sets of bushings directly from Igus for the same cost as 1 set at the bike shop. I love the ride of the bike, but will not buy another bike with bushings.
I'm on my 2nd Wildcard due to cracking at welds. Its sad because the bike performs great. Banshee will never see any of my $ again. Also Trident Sports gave me nothing but grief in dealing with them. Reluctantly I have lost faith in Banshee durability. Stay away from Trident,total tools!
Nice review, Garret... Great riding and shots too.
So I guess this is what you were lookin' to replace with the SB? Did you ever go ahead with that?
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Originally Posted by ol' dirty
(Post 2584057)
Nice review, Garret... Great riding and shots too.
So I guess this is what you were lookin' to replace with the SB? Did you ever go ahead with that? |
I owned 2 Rampants (Team red/white, and Raw) and thoroughly enjoyed both these bikes, easily the sickest "mountain bikes" I have ever owned in terms of pure "fun time" riding on Dirt Jumps, Pump Track, Slopestyle, Freeride and even Downhill tracks
I reviewed my Team Rampant for NSMB.com, some time back:
http://www.nsmb.com/3070-readers-rides-7/
this was my Raw Rampant earlier this year (sold due to losing my job..)
http://lp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb5899448/p4pb5899448.jpg
its no secret about the bushing issues that Banshee have suffered, the North American and European bike forums are full of owners talking about this, and coming up with "home brew" fixes
I used to work for the UK distributor of Mythic (Banshee for the UK market, due to trademark issues) and the Rampant was the one bike we had the least problems with?
probably due to the short travel suspension, which did not "move" (rotate) as much as the Spitfire (trail) and Rune (all mtn), and was generally not ridden for the same distances and poor weather conditions as the Spitfire and Rune
A good number of my former customers had serious issues with bushing/axle/frame wear on the Spitfire and Rune, these guys either got warranty frames / parts or were moved to the other brands we imported(devinci and ellsworth)
its a real shame...even though I am now removed from this equation, I understand Keith at Banshee is working real hard on the next generation frames using sealed ball bearings and revised suspension
there is literally nothing like the Rampant on the market(short travel virtual pivot = easy pedalling, active braking) in such a small physical package, this bike took serious abuse for a light weight rig (mine was 28.5lb)
http://lp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb3530643/p4pb3530643.jpg
I would be stoked to pick up a ball-bearing version if my riding needs change in the future and I need a play-bike for dirt riding
http://lp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb5021505/p4pb5021505.jpg
Great and honest review!
Hi Cheezit, thanks for the honest review on your Rampant. Definately sounds like you really like the ride characteristics! It's too bad to hear that you had to deal with excessive maintanence to keep it running.
Banshee is working hard to upgrade the pivot design to reduce the service intervals and down time off the bike. Here is what they are doing:
- the lower link and chain stay yoke on the rear triangle will have a "sacrificial" wear bushing installed the will rotate on the shoulder of the pivot bushing. This wear washer is made from a harder Igus bushing material that will resist wear from the bushing shoulder.
- the pivot axles are being Keronite coated vs hard anodized. Keronite is a process that changes the material that is being coated into a ceramic like surface that is many time harder than hard ano. If you want to read more go to: http://www.keronite.com/page-view.php?pagename=Home
These two modifications will greatly reduce the amount of maintanence that needs to be done with the current VF4B suspension bikes (Spitfire, Rune, Rampant).
One thing to note is that the pivot bushings are very long wearing and usually play developing in the system is from a worn pivot axle or a bike that has been over torqued and is developing frame wear. I personally only tighten the pivot bolts until they just contact the frame. The bolt is there to keep the axle from coming out and not to preload the system. If the bolts are overtighted it will cause premature wear of the frame and problems down the road.
Banshee is stepping up to the plate and producing a retro fitable lower link and rear end that have the "sacrifical" wear washers installed. These will be available to customers who are having problems under warranty and then as an aftermarket upgrade for people that want to update their bikes even if they are not having an issue.
Guest, if you want to contact me at Trident to explain the issue you are having with us I would be more than happy to see if we can figure out a solution. My email is dalen@tridentsports.com or I can be reached by phone at 604 929 9626 ext 930.
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Originally Posted by Trident
(Post 2584332)
Hi Cheezit, thanks for the honest review on your Rampant. Definately sounds like you really like the ride characteristics! It's too bad to hear that you had to deal with excessive maintanence to keep it running.
Banshee is working hard to upgrade the pivot design to reduce the service intervals and down time off the bike. Here is what they are doing: - the lower link and chain stay yoke on the rear triangle will have a "sacrificial" wear bushing installed the will rotate on the shoulder of the pivot bushing. This wear washer is made from a harder Igus bushing material that will resist wear from the bushing shoulder. - the pivot axles are being Keronite coated vs hard anodized. Keronite is a process that changes the material that is being coated into a ceramic like surface that is many time harder than hard ano. If you want to read more go to: http://www.keronite.com/page-view.php?pagename=Home These two modifications will greatly reduce the amount of maintanence that needs to be done with the current VF4B suspension bikes (Spitfire, Rune, Rampant). One thing to note is that the pivot bushings are very long wearing and usually play developing in the system is from a worn pivot axle or a bike that has been over torqued and is developing frame wear. I personally only tighten the pivot bolts until they just contact the frame. The bolt is there to keep the axle from coming out and not to preload the system. If the bolts are overtighted it will cause premature wear of the frame and problems down the road. Banshee is stepping up to the plate and producing a retro fitable lower link and rear end that have the "sacrifical" wear washers installed. These will be available to customers who are having problems under warranty and then as an aftermarket upgrade for people that want to update their bikes even if they are not having an issue. Guest, if you want to contact me at Trident to explain the issue you are having with us I would be more than happy to see if we can figure out a solution. My email is dalen@tridentsports.com or I can be reached by phone at 604 929 9626 ext 930. |
So...do we all have to send our frames to you, and go without riding? or are pictures good enough?
When exactly will these items be available?
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Originally Posted by hampstead_bandit
(Post 2584313)
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I am surprised to read in your review that both you and the engineer did not suffer from bushing wear, it sounded like you both rode the frame very hard. Did only the newer models have problems, i.e your raw frame?
I think your spot on with why this frame doesn't come back with as many problems. Even if it was rotating less then other bikes though, I was rotating it more often at 4 or more rides a week (in any conditions). This is probably why I ended up with the same results as others who rotated it more but less frequently.
If a bike has a problem and it's ridden that much, the problems going to eventually become apparent.
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Originally Posted by hampstead_bandit
(Post 2584313)
there is literally nothing like the Rampant on the market(short travel virtual pivot = easy pedalling, active braking) in such a small physical package, this bike took serious abuse for a light weight rig (mine was 28.5lb)
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Trident thanks for putting some conformation on the rumors floating around. It doesn't sound like there's any confirmed date/year for bushings as of yet though eh?
You've gotta try the sb66 G! Had a wildcard so I'm familiar w banshee, the yeti is incredible...all the rumors are true! Great aticle
Burke Rider, the washers are a temporary fix to keep people riding their bikes while the permanent solution is manufactured. It is also something that can be manufactured quicker than the perament fix which should be able to minimize the down time to the customer.
At this point we have the new Keronite axles in stock that we can send out to customers who are just experiencing axle wear and not frame wear. The wear washers are expected to arrive shortly to complete the wear kits.
The new rear triangle and link was just decided on last week as a better permanent fix for customers with wear that has occured in a short period of time. Trident and Banshee felt that it was neccesary to offer a solution that would reduce maintanence and allow customers to retain a reasonalbe resale value of their frame. I expect that we will be able to start retro fitting customers frames around the beginning of February. Manufacturing leadtimes are typially 90 days so that is the reason for the lagtime to get the new rear ends.
If you need to get your name on the list for a wear kit to keep you running let me know. We do require pictures of the wear and the serial number of the frame before we can send the parts out.
The wear kits are only for people experiecing wear and not for people want them just incase they experience wear. If your frame is a year old and it has not developed wear then it most likey won't if the pivots are not over tightened. The cases of wear are actually a very small percentage of the Runes, Spitfires and Rampants that have been sold globally.
The wear kits will be sent to people to install themselves. These are a quick and fairly easy install that can be done at the dealer or in your work shop.
The new rear ends will be installed by a Banshee/Trident representative at Trident and will require getting the frame to us. If you are local then it should be pretty easy. We are aiming to be able to turn around the installs in a 48-72 hours from when it arrives at Trident. Since we are going to be getting the rear ends in February the down time should not be a major problem since typically most of the trails around here are covered in snow and the ski hills are in prime conditions.
The majority of the cases of wear are due to overtightening of the pivots vs manufacturing defects but Banshee is handling each case the same to keep the customer happy and enjoying their Banshee.
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Originally Posted by Trident
(Post 2584775)
The cases of wear are actually a very small percentage of the Runes, Spitfires and Rampants that have been sold globally.
The majority of the cases of wear are due to overtightening of the pivots vs manufacturing defects but Banshee is handling each case the same to keep the customer happy and enjoying their Banshee. |
the German distributor also expressed this issue at a recent trade show, in the prescence of the UK distributor (who was being told otherwise) and Banshee representatives.
the rampants did not develop these issues because the pivots have limited rotation, the shock is run firm and they don't the wet weather mileage that the Spitfire and Rune do
more recently manufactured frames have definitely had worse QC (mis-alignment issues) than earlier models - the first batch of Rune frames we ever received were pretty much flawless apart from one
riders who cracked their original frames within the warranty period and have been given more recently manufactured frames as replacements, have then suffered axle problems, not experienced with the original frames
riders have been told time and time again the cause of the wear is the axles being overtightened - by who? the factory?
we are talking about riders who have owned their frames for a couple of weeks or few months and have not touched the axles, yet premature and offsided bushing / axle / frame wear has quickly developed
riders were given ever decreasing torque settings from Banshee for these pivots, and the current advice seems to be "hand tight.."??
two of the UK's leading bike magazines were given long-term Spitfire test frames yet no UK review was ever published, for a good reason
really hope Banshee can move their frames to ball bearings ASAP and take care of the customers with the bushing frames :)
I personally sold a good number of these frames in the UK and have some pretty pissed-off former customers who bought these expensive frames on my glowing recommendations, and have had nothing but trouble, having to constantly strip down and rebuild the pivots, and finding wear to their frames in a short time period
I know the UK distributor has moved many of these former customers onto alternative brands they distribute using a warranty "credit" system for their faulty frame
Hampstead_bandit, maybe it is a different case in Europe because we are definately not seeing the same percentage of frames with issues as you may have.
We are one of Banshee's largest distributors globally and have sold hundreds of these frames in the past few years. As it stands the number of requests we have had for wear kits and people with issues is at most 1% of the frames we have sold.
Either way Banshee is stepping up to the plate to help customers with these issues regardless if they are manufacturing issues or from over tightening.
I personally have ridden two Runes and 1 spitfire with very few issues and not a overwelming amount of maintanence since the bikes were introduced in 2007.
Rune #1: was one of the original prototypes that I rode for 18 months through two winters and 15 days in the Whistler Bike park with zero maintanence on the pivot system. I retired this bike once production ones were available.
Rune #2: Was an early 2011 production bike. I rode for 8 months mostly in fall/winter/spring conditions 3 days a week. Again I did not have to change a bushing or pivot axle and did not grease it once. I switch from a Rune to a Spiifire since I started dabbling in XC racing.
Spitfire #1: I have been on now for 6 months and have replaced the main pivot axle once.
So my experience has been really good with the VF4B bikes as far as maintanence is concerned.
Banshee has realized that something needed to be done to make sure that the pivots are more user friendly and durable in the long run if the system is over tightened. So they are making these changes to productions moving forward and offering retro fit kits to people so they are not left hanging.
In reality all bike manufactures have issues as some point be it bearings that wear out prematurely, seat stays or chainstays that fail becuase the designer under estimated the forces in the bike, headtubes that rip off from frames and require a full recall, etc. I could go on and nearly all the major brands experience something at some point. I feel it is the way that it is handled is key to customer loyalty.
From our experience Banshee makes some pretty kick ass bikes and steps up to the plate to take care of their customers.
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