Down To Business - REDUX
Spring has almost Sprung
Words by Paul Stevens. Photos by Todd Hellinga.
Date: 2011-12-30
* This article was originally published in May 2011. The discussion sparked by Paul's thoughts here is indicative of inevitable changes in the bike industry, and is relevant no matter what side of the debate you stand on.
Finally it's that time again! Time to shovel the snow off the trails, and start riding bikes in Whistler. In the spring, when bikes are beginning to get used to the stresses that summer will bring, a lot of money disappears on things that I don't really need and can't afford. But I buy them anyway without even thinking about it. There is never even a doubt in my mind. Sometimes it's a case of either cough up the dough, or go bikeless, and thinking about the latter option makes me nervous. For other things, there is always some kind of excuse not to front the cash, but not for bike parts.
Big snow years mean more effort in the spring. The work begins...Luke Garside photo
There was a time, in the darker, used-tire-scrounging, kraft-dinner-eating age of my bike bum years, when right after I had paid the rent something would inevitably break on my bike and I would be left with the choice between fixing my bike or buying groceries for the next few days. Needless to say, it was a hungry summer.
This addiction is expensive. And, driven by a collective who love to gawk over new shiny stuff, check the latest race results, and find out what hacksaw blade Aaron Gwin used to cut down his bars to give him the edge in South Africa, mountain biking is making a heavy assault on the internet. Every avid mountain biker I know checks what is going on in the bike world as regularly as they check their email. We are hooked. 
Getting down to business in Squamish.
The nerdy-ness of all these mountain bikers is bad news for the local bike shop. Not only are people now spending more time getting square eyes staring at their laptops instead of hanging out and watching the newest bike movies in the store, but the emergence of online stores, and the mind-bogglingly low prices they offer has made it much easier to justify to your mum/dad/girlfriend/wife/self that you really do need to upgrade to 10 speed this year.
Keeping the punishment to the bike to a minimum by sticking to the loam.
A friend recently told me that so many people are shopping for bike parts online in Australia, that workshop prices are through the roof in bike shops. This doesn't come as much of a surprise. The shops are not selling the parts, they are just fitting them when people bring them in. Pretty bad bike shop etiquette to start with, but I guess now Australian mechanics will replace looking at you like a smear of dog crap on the bottom of their shoe with happily handing you a bill for $200 to fit your cranks that you came in the week before to pick their brains about, but bought somewhere else.
Keeping the punishment to the bike to a minimum by sticking to the loam.
I appreciate that online shopping can be hard to beat sometimes, particularly when you can purchase parts for less than bike shops here can buy them for at their dealer rates, but I really hope that it doesn't reach the same level here as it has down in dingo land. I think there are a few things to think about before tapping in your credit card number for the new parts this spring
1) If you can't fit it yourself, don't insult the bike shop by bringing it down there for them to fit. Do them a favour and buy it from them in the first place. Chances are they will fit it much cheaper that way, and you will avoid the dog crap look I mentioned before.
2) If you shop at your local bike shop, they will help you out. The moment you buy something there you have struck up a relationship with them and they will be much happier to help you out if it goes wrong than your mate who got his stuff out of the box and fitted it wrong.
A wise man once told me it's all about choices. Bikes are rarely a bad choice.
3) Don't forget that the guys in your local bike shop work there because they have the same addiction you do; in fact most of them probably hung out in the shop so much before they worked there that they just ended up on the payroll. They know their stuff and they like fixing your bike. If you piss them off that probably won't be the case any more!
4) If the online stores take over the universe, and drive the local shops into the ground, who is going to be there to tell you why none of your old 9 speed parts are working with your shiny new 10 speed bits? Suddenly that explanation to your mum/dad/girlfriend/wife/self doesn't seem so justified!
I like it when people have opinions. Especially smart lads like Paulo. What's your take on online shopping for bike bits? Take your take here...
Comments
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Posted by Gnarly_X at 10:39 PM on 05-10-2011
Nothing to add, absolutely plain and simple spot on PREACH. :fro:
Support your LBS. Period.
Nothing to add, absolutely plain and simple spot on PREACH. :fro:
Support your LBS. Period.
Posted by Gravityfreak at 11:05 PM on 05-10-2011
Oh how I enjoy reading these articles which seem to be springing up like mushrooms (and we know what mushrooms grow on don't we). You see I live in “Dingo Land” as Paulo puts it and I am enjoying every single moment of watching bike shops wither and die.
See here's the thing. Bike shops have been ripping us off down under for years and years. I can't speak for the US or Canada, but here our isolation has meant we have been a captive market until quite recently. Endemic greed on behalf of importers and retailers (not only in the biking industry but all retail) has seen consumers taking it up the backside – big time. Example: If we look at the price of an item being sold retail in the US, add 10% for tax, 5% for import duties and then add shipping costs - we still often pay 50% - 100% more if bought locally. There is no justification for that besides greed and exploitation. Like I said - it's not just bike shops - it's all shops. But bike shops get my special attention because while other retail shops often offer great service to go along with their prices - bike shops almost never do. In his article, Paulo talks about those passionate bike kids who hang around bike shops till they end up on the payroll. Spot on. They're bike nuts but all too often know nothing about customer service or sales. They do what they do because they want to hang out in bike shops all day - not help people get into the sport or make the right buying decision.
How many times have you walked into a bike shop only to feel instantly uncomfortable - like you've entered a clubhouse and you're not a member? Pretty common. More irritating still is how often we go into a bike shop only to be told something we know to be completely incorrect by the kid working there who is as adamant as he is arrogant Recent example was being told by the local bike shop that tubeless is a waste of time, is heavier and results in just as many punctures as tubes – all things I know to be patently untrue). The truth is that all too often we know more about the products they sell, what's new and what's happening in the bike world than they do yet they still regard you like a newbie who bought his first bike yesterday.
When it comes to servicing I made the decision years ago to become self sufficient. I bought the tools I needed and figured out how to make stuff work / fix things. It's not rocket science. I use local bike shops only when I absolutely have to or when I am too time poor to do something myself. Not everyone is like me of course and they will be the ones to use the bike shops and even keep them afloat.
So what do I think should happen?
I think bike shops seem to miss the point that the only opportunity that exists is to radically improve their service. This seems to be a foreign concept however. I can put my hand on my heart and say that if my local bike shops provided brilliant service and great place to visit - I'd be more inclined to support them (not with everything but certainly with some things). Another point they miss is that due to lower prices, the sport is more accessible to more people and allows people who may otherwise have only owned one bike or no bike, to own two or even three. That’s three times as many bikes that could get serviced / fixed if they provided a sufficiently professional service.
Why articles like this, while well meaning, make me laugh is because you will not stop this turning tide. In the words of Pearl Jam.... "it's evolution baby". So stop whinging and whining bike shops – things aren’t going to change and bleating about it won’t help either. Loyalty in retail is a myth. If you want loyalty – get a dog. If you want business – up your game, change your game or wither and perish. Personally, I won’t miss you.
Oh how I enjoy reading these articles which seem to be springing up like mushrooms (and we know what mushrooms grow on don't we). You see I live in “Dingo Land” as Paulo puts it and I am enjoying every single moment of watching bike shops wither and die.
See here's the thing. Bike shops have been ripping us off down under for years and years. I can't speak for the US or Canada, but here our isolation has meant we have been a captive market until quite recently. Endemic greed on behalf of importers and retailers (not only in the biking industry but all retail) has seen consumers taking it up the backside – big time. Example: If we look at the price of an item being sold retail in the US, add 10% for tax, 5% for import duties and then add shipping costs - we still often pay 50% - 100% more if bought locally. There is no justification for that besides greed and exploitation. Like I said - it's not just bike shops - it's all shops. But bike shops get my special attention because while other retail shops often offer great service to go along with their prices - bike shops almost never do. In his article, Paulo talks about those passionate bike kids who hang around bike shops till they end up on the payroll. Spot on. They're bike nuts but all too often know nothing about customer service or sales. They do what they do because they want to hang out in bike shops all day - not help people get into the sport or make the right buying decision.
How many times have you walked into a bike shop only to feel instantly uncomfortable - like you've entered a clubhouse and you're not a member? Pretty common. More irritating still is how often we go into a bike shop only to be told something we know to be completely incorrect by the kid working there who is as adamant as he is arrogant Recent example was being told by the local bike shop that tubeless is a waste of time, is heavier and results in just as many punctures as tubes – all things I know to be patently untrue). The truth is that all too often we know more about the products they sell, what's new and what's happening in the bike world than they do yet they still regard you like a newbie who bought his first bike yesterday.
When it comes to servicing I made the decision years ago to become self sufficient. I bought the tools I needed and figured out how to make stuff work / fix things. It's not rocket science. I use local bike shops only when I absolutely have to or when I am too time poor to do something myself. Not everyone is like me of course and they will be the ones to use the bike shops and even keep them afloat.
So what do I think should happen?
I think bike shops seem to miss the point that the only opportunity that exists is to radically improve their service. This seems to be a foreign concept however. I can put my hand on my heart and say that if my local bike shops provided brilliant service and great place to visit - I'd be more inclined to support them (not with everything but certainly with some things). Another point they miss is that due to lower prices, the sport is more accessible to more people and allows people who may otherwise have only owned one bike or no bike, to own two or even three. That’s three times as many bikes that could get serviced / fixed if they provided a sufficiently professional service.
Why articles like this, while well meaning, make me laugh is because you will not stop this turning tide. In the words of Pearl Jam.... "it's evolution baby". So stop whinging and whining bike shops – things aren’t going to change and bleating about it won’t help either. Loyalty in retail is a myth. If you want loyalty – get a dog. If you want business – up your game, change your game or wither and perish. Personally, I won’t miss you.
Posted by Citizen of Dingoland at 12:55 AM on 05-11-2011
Like Gravity Freak said, I really don't care if bike shops die out in Australia. There's only ever been one bike shop that I have been to that hasn't been completely hopeless. My experience of the bike shops in the area I live in is that they ridiculously over priced, and have horrible service. I really tried to like one of my LBS's but its kinda hard to ignore the fact that they staff are arrogant, money hungry, don't know shit about bikes and when you attempt to order a part through them, they either get it wrong, don't order it at all, charge you more than the rrp or a combination of all three...
CRC and common sense is where its at imo.
Like Gravity Freak said, I really don't care if bike shops die out in Australia. There's only ever been one bike shop that I have been to that hasn't been completely hopeless. My experience of the bike shops in the area I live in is that they ridiculously over priced, and have horrible service. I really tried to like one of my LBS's but its kinda hard to ignore the fact that they staff are arrogant, money hungry, don't know shit about bikes and when you attempt to order a part through them, they either get it wrong, don't order it at all, charge you more than the rrp or a combination of all three...
CRC and common sense is where its at imo.
Posted by dclxvi at 05:36 AM on 05-11-2011
bah... It's good practice for businesses to fight for the best costs and deals, but for the consumers, it's not. Kinda irrational. If the price is right, support your LBS. If you're being ripped off, walk away! The changing game is sure hurting LBS. But just like everything, adaptation is needed. Something is wrong when parts cost more from the distributors than from some online shops.
bah... It's good practice for businesses to fight for the best costs and deals, but for the consumers, it's not. Kinda irrational. If the price is right, support your LBS. If you're being ripped off, walk away! The changing game is sure hurting LBS. But just like everything, adaptation is needed. Something is wrong when parts cost more from the distributors than from some online shops.
Posted by GladePlayboy at 06:23 AM on 05-11-2011
Too many economic influences on my pocketbook to these days to justify NOT shopping online... especially with kids, mortgage, blah, blah, blah and all that entails. Gotta go where the deals are or the bike habit can't be supported. Those are the cold hard facts.
Too many economic influences on my pocketbook to these days to justify NOT shopping online... especially with kids, mortgage, blah, blah, blah and all that entails. Gotta go where the deals are or the bike habit can't be supported. Those are the cold hard facts.
Posted by jetta_mike at 06:58 AM on 05-11-2011
The game has changed, evolve or die.
The game has changed, evolve or die.
Posted by the Master Plan Dan at 07:31 AM on 05-11-2011
Well said Paulo! Never bought anything on line.
Well said Paulo! Never bought anything on line.
Posted by FlipFantasia at 07:44 AM on 05-11-2011
I think the gist of what he's saying though is, go ahead and buy online, but don't whine when it costs a lot to get it installed.
I think the gist of what he's saying though is, go ahead and buy online, but don't whine when it costs a lot to get it installed.
Posted by kperras at 07:56 AM on 05-11-2011
Which way to the dead horse?
Which way to the dead horse?
Posted by O in Ontario at 08:29 AM on 05-11-2011
I have to agree with most of the above. I've been with the same bike shops now since the 90's. Most stuff I bought from them cost way more than online, and to make matters worse, they're focused almost solely on upselling you and getting rid of their unsellable crap. I find that most of the time, when they install/maintain, they rush through it and then I have to tweak their work to get it right.
I buy online, not always, but usually, I fit it in my garage, I maintain my own bike, and it rides well. Take it into a shop, and I pay large sums, and am never happy with my ride's performance.
I don't whine about why 10 speed doesn't fit 9 speed bits b/c I understand common sense and read about my beloved sport online.
Only thing I really do at the bike shop is buy a new bike when the time is right.
my 2c.
I have to agree with most of the above. I've been with the same bike shops now since the 90's. Most stuff I bought from them cost way more than online, and to make matters worse, they're focused almost solely on upselling you and getting rid of their unsellable crap. I find that most of the time, when they install/maintain, they rush through it and then I have to tweak their work to get it right.
I buy online, not always, but usually, I fit it in my garage, I maintain my own bike, and it rides well. Take it into a shop, and I pay large sums, and am never happy with my ride's performance.
I don't whine about why 10 speed doesn't fit 9 speed bits b/c I understand common sense and read about my beloved sport online.
Only thing I really do at the bike shop is buy a new bike when the time is right.
my 2c.
Posted by Rainmaker at 08:56 AM on 05-11-2011
its funny how many NSMB e-fights solutions can be boiled down to: use common sense and be respectful.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by FlipFantasia
(Post 2521159)
I think the gist of what he's saying though is, go ahead and buy online, but don't whine when it costs a lot to get it installed.
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Posted by FlipFantasia at 09:01 AM on 05-11-2011
two things that are sorely lacking these days.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rainmaker
(Post 2521184)
its funny how many NSMB e-fights solutions can be boiled down to: use common sense and be respectful.
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Posted by Mishtar at 09:12 AM on 05-11-2011
I really don't get this, I looked at a gravity dropper seat post in a local shop and it was $425. I bought it directly from gravity dropper for $290. That is a large enough difference to justify it. I don't see how I can buy a single one for that price but a bike store cannot get it for less. As far as paying more for bike parts to be put on that we buy online, why should we. There is a hourly rate, it should not cost anymore because I bought my parts online but want to pay a bike shop to do the work. I think they should appreciate the business and be happy I am not taking the time to learn to service or replace parts on my bike and pay them to do it. Things like tires or tubes I don't mind buying but when something cost 33% more and is already a few hundred bucks I would rather save the $100.
I really don't get this, I looked at a gravity dropper seat post in a local shop and it was $425. I bought it directly from gravity dropper for $290. That is a large enough difference to justify it. I don't see how I can buy a single one for that price but a bike store cannot get it for less. As far as paying more for bike parts to be put on that we buy online, why should we. There is a hourly rate, it should not cost anymore because I bought my parts online but want to pay a bike shop to do the work. I think they should appreciate the business and be happy I am not taking the time to learn to service or replace parts on my bike and pay them to do it. Things like tires or tubes I don't mind buying but when something cost 33% more and is already a few hundred bucks I would rather save the $100.
Posted by enduramil at 09:18 AM on 05-11-2011
*awaits Wayne P to post*
*awaits Wayne P to post*
Posted by theweev at 09:36 AM on 05-11-2011
Werd!!!!!I I will always support my local shop, I have a vested intrest in making sure their kids are fed and clothed. That said when the owner tells me to buy
( insert product here) online cuz, "there is no way in hell", they would be able to match that price, you do as they say (07'Avid code Master cylinder w/ lever $35/ea vs. $125 shop cost). It's easy to blindly say," support your shop", if you are single and renting or have a job that leaves you wondering what to do with all your $$$$$, for the rest of us who are at a point in our lives where almost everything pulls at your income before your bike, the idea of of keeping up to, "....a collective who love to gawk over new shiny stuff, check the latest race results, and find out what hacksaw blade Aaron Gwin used to cut down his bars to give him the edge in South Africa.", are long since gone. We have returned to the essence of our, "darker, used-tire-scrounging, kraft-dinner-eating age..", because we put ourselves after the ones we care for. If we can save a bundle on the internet, we do. Cuz every $ saved there, means we can spend it on our 1st priority, our families. Sure, definitely support your local shop but NEVER be guilted into NOT using the internet to shopping for your parts by anyone. You MAY end up with a shit look from the LBS mechanic but if that's the case, find a business that's actually "in business". Because you are still establishing a relationship with them. Period. Any business that actively seeks to discourage "business" should contact my buddy, he handles bancruptcies. Welcome to the real world, where money talks and bullshit walks. ( flame retardant suit on )
Quote:
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Originally Posted by GladePlayboy
(Post 2521145)
Too many economic influences on my pocketbook to these days to justify NOT shopping online... especially with kids, mortgage, blah, blah, blah and all that entails. Gotta go where the deals are or the bike habit can't be supported. Those are the cold hard facts.
|
( insert product here) online cuz, "there is no way in hell", they would be able to match that price, you do as they say (07'Avid code Master cylinder w/ lever $35/ea vs. $125 shop cost). It's easy to blindly say," support your shop", if you are single and renting or have a job that leaves you wondering what to do with all your $$$$$, for the rest of us who are at a point in our lives where almost everything pulls at your income before your bike, the idea of of keeping up to, "....a collective who love to gawk over new shiny stuff, check the latest race results, and find out what hacksaw blade Aaron Gwin used to cut down his bars to give him the edge in South Africa.", are long since gone. We have returned to the essence of our, "darker, used-tire-scrounging, kraft-dinner-eating age..", because we put ourselves after the ones we care for. If we can save a bundle on the internet, we do. Cuz every $ saved there, means we can spend it on our 1st priority, our families. Sure, definitely support your local shop but NEVER be guilted into NOT using the internet to shopping for your parts by anyone. You MAY end up with a shit look from the LBS mechanic but if that's the case, find a business that's actually "in business". Because you are still establishing a relationship with them. Period. Any business that actively seeks to discourage "business" should contact my buddy, he handles bancruptcies. Welcome to the real world, where money talks and bullshit walks. ( flame retardant suit on )
Posted by Mishtar at 09:54 AM on 05-11-2011
On a totally unrleated matter is anyone else seeing my post count show up as 4,294,967,280. No idea what is up with that.
On a totally unrleated matter is anyone else seeing my post count show up as 4,294,967,280. No idea what is up with that.
Posted by cam@nsmb.com at 09:59 AM on 05-11-2011
4,294,967,281 now. It seems to be keeping track accurately.
Mishtar - you should maybe consider getting out more. ;)
It's a glitch that we have just decided to laugh at. If it bothers you we can fix it for you.
4,294,967,281 now. It seems to be keeping track accurately.
Mishtar - you should maybe consider getting out more. ;)
It's a glitch that we have just decided to laugh at. If it bothers you we can fix it for you.
Posted by craw at 10:04 AM on 05-11-2011
I've never understood the pricing discrepancy between the US and Canada. I just went to Fanatik in Bellingham where they fit me with a Leatt neck brace and I saved over $100. That's a 25% savings.
When the price is pretty close I opt to support my local shops because they represent more than the price tag (advice, support, stock, local community, etc). But a $100 savings is something I won't ignore.
This confusion is compounded by the fact that the Canadian Dollar is as strong or stronger than $US right now.
I've never understood the pricing discrepancy between the US and Canada. I just went to Fanatik in Bellingham where they fit me with a Leatt neck brace and I saved over $100. That's a 25% savings.
When the price is pretty close I opt to support my local shops because they represent more than the price tag (advice, support, stock, local community, etc). But a $100 savings is something I won't ignore.
This confusion is compounded by the fact that the Canadian Dollar is as strong or stronger than $US right now.
Posted by morgman at 10:05 AM on 05-11-2011
This discussion strikes a chord for sure... nice writeup and photos.
This discussion strikes a chord for sure... nice writeup and photos.
Posted by dingo downunder at 10:25 AM on 05-11-2011
I also need to point out that Aus has NO IMPORT TAX for items under $1000. This is quite different to Canada where we do get taxed and it's just lucky if your order makes it though customs un-noticed! So the Aus retail market is really struggling with their dollar being so high (a few cents higher than the Canadian dollar!), when you can go online and buy something substantially cheaper (esp as your buying at the current exchange rate, yet the LBS bought their inventory prob a few months ago when it was technically more expensive). Anyway, you buy something online for a quarter of the price, if you spend enough many places like CRC will do free shipping and then the Aus government doesn't tax on incoming goods. Loyality is one thing, but seriously, you would have to be an idiot not to make the most of those savings. Would you rather be loyal to an LBS or buy a better bike??
Canada's import tax will save the LBS here, if they are not being too greedy with prices. But I don't know if there is much hope for the Aus market.
I also need to point out that Aus has NO IMPORT TAX for items under $1000. This is quite different to Canada where we do get taxed and it's just lucky if your order makes it though customs un-noticed! So the Aus retail market is really struggling with their dollar being so high (a few cents higher than the Canadian dollar!), when you can go online and buy something substantially cheaper (esp as your buying at the current exchange rate, yet the LBS bought their inventory prob a few months ago when it was technically more expensive). Anyway, you buy something online for a quarter of the price, if you spend enough many places like CRC will do free shipping and then the Aus government doesn't tax on incoming goods. Loyality is one thing, but seriously, you would have to be an idiot not to make the most of those savings. Would you rather be loyal to an LBS or buy a better bike??
Canada's import tax will save the LBS here, if they are not being too greedy with prices. But I don't know if there is much hope for the Aus market.
Posted by Windwalker at 10:26 AM on 05-11-2011
Depends on the relationship you build up with your local bike shop i guess, i've known that i can get parts cheaper on line but 5 bucks cheaper is just going to piss off the shop so i buy them at the shop.
Consequently the bike mechanic knowing that i'm not out there to fuck with him tells me when i should buy stuff online which i then do. Works fairly well and saves me the time of researching every part.
Depends on the relationship you build up with your local bike shop i guess, i've known that i can get parts cheaper on line but 5 bucks cheaper is just going to piss off the shop so i buy them at the shop.
Consequently the bike mechanic knowing that i'm not out there to fuck with him tells me when i should buy stuff online which i then do. Works fairly well and saves me the time of researching every part.
Posted by PinkRobe at 11:01 AM on 05-11-2011
It's the Canadian distributors that make the difference. They simply charge the shops more. Also consider that there are more people in California than there are in Canada [and Cali has better weather], which means that the US distributors like QBP have massive buying power and get better deals from the manufacturers. Margins at shops are really low - the net profit is typically around 3% [source: Bicycle Retailer and Industry News]. The shops have to pass the costs onto the customer, or they take a loss. Gross margin on bikes and forks is ~45%, margin on parts and clothing is ~100% at full MSRP, service work is ~500%. Costs run 40-50%. Bikes and forks - the least profitable things you can sell in a shop...
Shops in Canada need to focus on service and building relationships with their customers. Bike parts are a commodity, and the lowest price will win. If you can't compete with Universal Cycles, Jenson, CRC, Wiggle, etc. on price, then your competitive advantage has to be on service, including customer experience, personal relationships and convenience. Most shops don't understand this...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by craw
(Post 2521223)
I've never understood the pricing discrepancy between the US and Canada. I just went to Fanatik in Bellingham where they fit me with a Leatt neck brace and I saved over $100. That's a 25% savings.
When the price is pretty close I opt to support my local shops because they represent more than the price tag (advice, support, stock, local community, etc). But a $100 savings is something I won't ignore. This confusion is compounded by the fact that the Canadian Dollar is as strong or stronger than $US right now. |
Shops in Canada need to focus on service and building relationships with their customers. Bike parts are a commodity, and the lowest price will win. If you can't compete with Universal Cycles, Jenson, CRC, Wiggle, etc. on price, then your competitive advantage has to be on service, including customer experience, personal relationships and convenience. Most shops don't understand this...
Posted by online consumer at 12:24 PM on 05-11-2011
Being a consumer of this industry for close to 12 years, this is what will get me to walk through your front door.
- Do not employ immature unprofessional fashion victims. Their overall body language makes me turn around and leave. For that I shop online.
- My wife and her friends ride, but find the whole lbs experience intimidating. For that they shop online.
- I do most of the work myself from my garage, but when I go to a lbs to have a wheelset built for example, with components purchased online don't scoff, don't give me the cold shoulder and DON'T tell me I'm wrong. Especially when it's clear I know what I'm talking about, don't ever assume. For that I will shop online.
- Don't say you'll get back to me this afternoon, tomorrow, Friday or whenever when you never intend to be punctual at all. I don't mind waiting if it means that you will honor your word.
- Recently I walked into a lbs, told the guy (22ish I'm guessing)who greeted me I was in the market for a complete DH rig and I had $4500 to spend. He looked at the ground, screwed his face up and said "you'll need at least 5-6k before we can make things happen". I haven't been back to that shop again. So I shopped online. I put together a killer Legend with parts sourced online and across the boarder for a little over $4700.
- Why not provide a service where customers can have there online purchases delivered to your shop and you provide the required professionalism to build, assemble ect. For that I'll use you.
- Bottom line. Neatness, diligence, professional conduct. Regardless if the customer is wrong he/she is ALWAYS right, keep your personal opinions to yourself. And if you don't know admit it and ask someone who does,be willing to learn. This is what get's people through you front door.
Being a consumer of this industry for close to 12 years, this is what will get me to walk through your front door.
- Do not employ immature unprofessional fashion victims. Their overall body language makes me turn around and leave. For that I shop online.
- My wife and her friends ride, but find the whole lbs experience intimidating. For that they shop online.
- I do most of the work myself from my garage, but when I go to a lbs to have a wheelset built for example, with components purchased online don't scoff, don't give me the cold shoulder and DON'T tell me I'm wrong. Especially when it's clear I know what I'm talking about, don't ever assume. For that I will shop online.
- Don't say you'll get back to me this afternoon, tomorrow, Friday or whenever when you never intend to be punctual at all. I don't mind waiting if it means that you will honor your word.
- Recently I walked into a lbs, told the guy (22ish I'm guessing)who greeted me I was in the market for a complete DH rig and I had $4500 to spend. He looked at the ground, screwed his face up and said "you'll need at least 5-6k before we can make things happen". I haven't been back to that shop again. So I shopped online. I put together a killer Legend with parts sourced online and across the boarder for a little over $4700.
- Why not provide a service where customers can have there online purchases delivered to your shop and you provide the required professionalism to build, assemble ect. For that I'll use you.
- Bottom line. Neatness, diligence, professional conduct. Regardless if the customer is wrong he/she is ALWAYS right, keep your personal opinions to yourself. And if you don't know admit it and ask someone who does,be willing to learn. This is what get's people through you front door.
Posted by jmeldrummqt at 12:27 PM on 05-11-2011
As a long time shop wrench (13+ years) in numerious bike shops I have to say that I am still amazed that some products can be purchased online for cheaper than the shop itself can buy them for. It is not the LBS's choice in most cases to have such high prices, there is simply no other way to make selling something economically feasible. The problem is that component manufacturers set there price based on volume and for a LBS to buy 200 pairs of XT cranks is impractable.
That said, I don't blame the consumer at all for buying online, who wouldn't. Just expect o pay more for service. Once I move on to another career field I will likely buy all my parts online. With knowledge, experience, and tools that I have, I hope to never go to a bike shop again.
If the LBS dies, it will be the parts manufacturers to blame. If Specialized, Giant, Trek and other huge bike companies sold online, the LBS would have been dead years ago.
As a long time shop wrench (13+ years) in numerious bike shops I have to say that I am still amazed that some products can be purchased online for cheaper than the shop itself can buy them for. It is not the LBS's choice in most cases to have such high prices, there is simply no other way to make selling something economically feasible. The problem is that component manufacturers set there price based on volume and for a LBS to buy 200 pairs of XT cranks is impractable.
That said, I don't blame the consumer at all for buying online, who wouldn't. Just expect o pay more for service. Once I move on to another career field I will likely buy all my parts online. With knowledge, experience, and tools that I have, I hope to never go to a bike shop again.
If the LBS dies, it will be the parts manufacturers to blame. If Specialized, Giant, Trek and other huge bike companies sold online, the LBS would have been dead years ago.
Posted by Bryce at 12:57 PM on 05-11-2011
this
then this
this
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by kperras
(Post 2521161)
Which way to the dead horse?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jetta_mike
(Post 2521151)
The game has changed, evolve or die.
|
Posted by biggles604 at 01:02 PM on 05-11-2011
/thread.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PinkRobe
(Post 2521259)
It's the Canadian distributors that make the difference. They simply charge the shops more. Also consider that there are more people in California than there are in Canada [and Cali has better weather], which means that the US distributors like QBP have massive buying power and get better deals from the manufacturers. Margins at shops are really low - the net profit is typically around 3% [source: Bicycle Retailer and Industry News]. The shops have to pass the costs onto the customer, or they take a loss. Gross margin on bikes and forks is ~45%, margin on parts and clothing is ~100% at full MSRP, service work is ~500%. Costs run 40-50%. Bikes and forks - the least profitable things you can sell in a shop...
Shops in Canada need to focus on service and building relationships with their customers. Bike parts are a commodity, and the lowest price will win. If you can't compete with Universal Cycles, Jenson, CRC, Wiggle, etc. on price, then your competitive advantage has to be on service, including customer experience, personal relationships and convenience. Most shops don't understand this... |
Posted by DarylMac at 02:37 PM on 05-11-2011
The photos are nice but the wrire up is sorely lacking. Was it supposed to get me pumped for riding and start prepping the trails? Or is it a diatribe on consumer loyalty?
Instead of two really good articles we get one mediocre one.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by morgman
(Post 2521226)
This discussion strikes a chord for sure... nice writeup and photos.
|
Instead of two really good articles we get one mediocre one.
Posted by MikeO at 03:06 PM on 05-11-2011
Here's an example and this is nothing new:
Walked into a local shop in North Van with every intension of buying a set of Descendant cranks. They weren't in stock which I was fine with and went to go and order them through the guy I was talking to. He then quoted me a price of $400!!!!! My jaw hit the floor and I walked out telling the guy I'm going to have to "think about it".
Within 5 minutes of searching around online I had a set sent to me from the US, all in, for $185 cdn SHIPPED. The current exchanged rate certainly helps but there is no way in hell I'm paying $200+ more just to "support my local shop". It's fucking bullshit. They need to compete or get out of the business.
Here's an example and this is nothing new:
Walked into a local shop in North Van with every intension of buying a set of Descendant cranks. They weren't in stock which I was fine with and went to go and order them through the guy I was talking to. He then quoted me a price of $400!!!!! My jaw hit the floor and I walked out telling the guy I'm going to have to "think about it".
Within 5 minutes of searching around online I had a set sent to me from the US, all in, for $185 cdn SHIPPED. The current exchanged rate certainly helps but there is no way in hell I'm paying $200+ more just to "support my local shop". It's fucking bullshit. They need to compete or get out of the business.
Posted by enduramil at 03:16 PM on 05-11-2011
Could it be. That finally mechanic labour rates in the cycling industry catch up with other industries? It always amazes me how people will not bat an eye at paying a auto mechanic $100 for labour for 45 minutes work yet will chisel a bike mechanic over a $20 cost of labour.
Could it be. That finally mechanic labour rates in the cycling industry catch up with other industries? It always amazes me how people will not bat an eye at paying a auto mechanic $100 for labour for 45 minutes work yet will chisel a bike mechanic over a $20 cost of labour.
Posted by MikeO at 03:43 PM on 05-11-2011
I agree with that. I had my wheel dished and trued for my Demo and it cost me $13. I felt like I stole something. I would have happily paid more for something I had no idea how to do confidently.
I agree with that. I had my wheel dished and trued for my Demo and it cost me $13. I felt like I stole something. I would have happily paid more for something I had no idea how to do confidently.
Posted by FlipFantasia at 03:55 PM on 05-11-2011
just to repeat, again....Shops have no control over that kind of thing. They are forced to buy from a distributor at a set price...your anger is misplaced.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MikeO
(Post 2521348)
Here's an example and this is nothing new:
Walked into a local shop in North Van with every intension of buying a set of Descendant cranks. They weren't in stock which I was fine with and went to go and order them through the guy I was talking to. He then quoted me a price of $400!!!!! My jaw hit the floor and I walked out telling the guy I'm going to have to "think about it". Within 5 minutes of searching around online I had a set sent to me from the US, all in, for $185 cdn SHIPPED. The current exchanged rate certainly helps but there is no way in hell I'm paying $200+ more just to "support my local shop". It's fucking bullshit. They need to compete or get out of the business. |
Posted by Straw at 04:37 PM on 05-11-2011
I walked into Different Bikes on Broadway, and mentioned I was looking for a new set of grips, but was hesitant to put money into the bike because I hoped to sell it.
He wanted to get rid of their unsellable crap, and did so by just giving me a free set he had hanging around.
I was quite happy with that, and the attitude it showed.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by O in Ontario
(Post 2521173)
they're focused almost solely on upselling you and getting rid of their unsellable crap.
|
He wanted to get rid of their unsellable crap, and did so by just giving me a free set he had hanging around.
I was quite happy with that, and the attitude it showed.
Posted by sAFETY at 05:32 PM on 05-11-2011
I wonder if the author will ever see his words published here, considering NSMB is an eMagazine that directly contributes to the demise of bike magazine publishing.
I wonder if the author will ever see his words published here, considering NSMB is an eMagazine that directly contributes to the demise of bike magazine publishing.
Posted by Straw at 05:35 PM on 05-11-2011
^^^reaching.
^^^reaching.
Posted by The Imported one at 05:58 PM on 05-11-2011
Having grown up in the UK and becoming accustomed to LBS actually offering great pricing and comptetitive rates I never ever really bought anything online and always used the LBS. I moved to Oz 6 or so years ago and fell flat on my ass when i saw the prices in the LBS there! To say Oz is a rip off is no exageration, not only for bikes, cars are nearly double the price of the USA and Canada and a good third more than what is know as a expensive country for cars the UK!!! Aussie Disty's need to wake up and become more competitive. It doesnt ztop there though, i fear for the Aussie high end bike market as it not only tries to rip you off but then offers woeful at best support and warranty. You regularly hear of warranty period of 3-6 months being mentioned when a frame or major component is damaged! But they will get you the new part for sale ASAP! So since living in Oz, i have regulalry bought DH Bikes, Frames, Componenets from back in the UK as it works out nearly 50% percetn cheaper, even when warranty becomes a factor it still works out cheaper and quicker!
So for those Aussies whinging that the LBS there arent doing too well, put pressure on your importers and disty to improve and reduce their greed and maybe things will get better. Till then I will always shop on line from the UK and install the stuff myself (or buy it locally in Whistler where i now live)!
Import
Having grown up in the UK and becoming accustomed to LBS actually offering great pricing and comptetitive rates I never ever really bought anything online and always used the LBS. I moved to Oz 6 or so years ago and fell flat on my ass when i saw the prices in the LBS there! To say Oz is a rip off is no exageration, not only for bikes, cars are nearly double the price of the USA and Canada and a good third more than what is know as a expensive country for cars the UK!!! Aussie Disty's need to wake up and become more competitive. It doesnt ztop there though, i fear for the Aussie high end bike market as it not only tries to rip you off but then offers woeful at best support and warranty. You regularly hear of warranty period of 3-6 months being mentioned when a frame or major component is damaged! But they will get you the new part for sale ASAP! So since living in Oz, i have regulalry bought DH Bikes, Frames, Componenets from back in the UK as it works out nearly 50% percetn cheaper, even when warranty becomes a factor it still works out cheaper and quicker!
So for those Aussies whinging that the LBS there arent doing too well, put pressure on your importers and disty to improve and reduce their greed and maybe things will get better. Till then I will always shop on line from the UK and install the stuff myself (or buy it locally in Whistler where i now live)!
Import
Posted by Tom at 06:19 PM on 05-11-2011
This. It astounds me how cheap bike shops labour rates are.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by enduramil
(Post 2521350)
Could it be. That finally mechanic labour rates in the cycling industry catch up with other industries? It always amazes me how people will not bat an eye at paying a auto mechanic $100 for labour for 45 minutes work yet will chisel a bike mechanic over a $20 cost of labour.
|
Posted by big-ted at 06:19 PM on 05-11-2011
I think, to be fair, people's angry tone is because they feel they're buying habits are being attacked and they need to justify them.
I agree with what you're saying. I think the bike industry in general needs a massive shake up. The intermediate distributor needs to be eliminated, as it seems to me this middleman expects to take a cut for seemingly offering no added value to the consumer. The value added by the distributor is, ironically, to the retailer, or lbs, as it avoids them having to keep excessive stock of every size and colour combination of certain parts. I think the problem is that the distributors fee for that service is passed on to the consumer, when it isn't the consumer that sees the benefit of said service. Does that make sense?
The large scale retailers, CRC, Jenson etc, have realised that, by taking the hit and stocking a wider range of products themselves, they can source their products through other channels and eliminate the distributor. Subsequently, they pass on these savings to the consumer, and the result is an increase in business and economy of scale.
Damn. I should have gone to business school...
There were some interesting comments being thrown around by some "industry insiders" during the time Race Face ditched Cycles Lambert and started selling to retailers direct regarding this.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FlipFantasia
(Post 2521368)
just to repeat, again....Shops have no control over that kind of thing. They are forced to buy from a distributor at a set price...your anger is misplaced.
|
I agree with what you're saying. I think the bike industry in general needs a massive shake up. The intermediate distributor needs to be eliminated, as it seems to me this middleman expects to take a cut for seemingly offering no added value to the consumer. The value added by the distributor is, ironically, to the retailer, or lbs, as it avoids them having to keep excessive stock of every size and colour combination of certain parts. I think the problem is that the distributors fee for that service is passed on to the consumer, when it isn't the consumer that sees the benefit of said service. Does that make sense?
The large scale retailers, CRC, Jenson etc, have realised that, by taking the hit and stocking a wider range of products themselves, they can source their products through other channels and eliminate the distributor. Subsequently, they pass on these savings to the consumer, and the result is an increase in business and economy of scale.
Damn. I should have gone to business school...
There were some interesting comments being thrown around by some "industry insiders" during the time Race Face ditched Cycles Lambert and started selling to retailers direct regarding this.
Posted by gotham at 06:24 PM on 05-11-2011
You mean the author Paul Stevens, winner of NSMB Airprentice and a member of the NSMB Team?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sAFETY
(Post 2521398)
I wonder if the author will ever see his words published here, considering NSMB is an eMagazine that directly contributes to the demise of bike magazine publishing.
|
Posted by MikeO at 06:35 PM on 05-11-2011
My anger has always been misplaced:rocker:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FlipFantasia
(Post 2521368)
just to repeat, again....Shops have no control over that kind of thing. They are forced to buy from a distributor at a set price...your anger is misplaced.
|
Posted by biggles604 at 06:48 PM on 05-11-2011
This is the sort of thing that will generate a repeat visit in the store. I think the big problem is that bike shops are retailers and service providers. Noone is attacking the service side of it, but the retail element is not keeping people's business, so the question is; can a bike shop get by as just a service centre?
This isn't anything new or surprising. This is just wholesale is it not? If someone was to complain that their local butcher should be supported, but everyone is shopping at Costco, wouldn't it be a very similar argument? And at the end of the day, what keeps a local butcher in business: The service, not the product (although the product is better).
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Straw
(Post 2521379)
I walked into Different Bikes on Broadway, and mentioned I was looking for a new set of grips, but was hesitant to put money into the bike because I hoped to sell it.
He wanted to get rid of their unsellable crap, and did so by just giving me a free set he had hanging around. I was quite happy with that, and the attitude it showed. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by big-ted
(Post 2521415)
I think, to be fair, people's angry tone is because they feel they're buying habits are being attacked and they need to justify them.
I agree with what you're saying. I think the bike industry in general needs a massive shake up. The intermediate distributor needs to be eliminated, as it seems to me this middleman expects to take a cut for seemingly offering no added value to the consumer. The value added by the distributor is, ironically, to the retailer, or lbs, as it avoids them having to keep excessive stock of every size and colour combination of certain parts. I think the problem is that the distributors fee for that service is passed on to the consumer, when it isn't the consumer that sees the benefit of said service. Does that make sense? The large scale retailers, CRC, Jenson etc, have realised that, by taking the hit and stocking a wider range of products themselves, they can source their products through other channels and eliminate the distributor. Subsequently, they pass on these savings to the consumer, and the result is an increase in business and economy of scale. Damn. I should have gone to business school... There were some interesting comments being thrown around by some "industry insiders" during the time Race Face ditched Cycles Lambert and started selling to retailers direct regarding this. |
Posted by gotham at 06:50 PM on 05-11-2011
Sounds like Suspensionwerx business model. They even manage to sell the odd piece of suspension equipment.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by biggles604
(Post 2521423)
This is the sort of thing that will generate a repeat visit in the store. I think the big problem is that bike shops are retailers and service providers. Noone is attacking the service side of it, but the retail element is not keeping people's business, so the question is; can a bike shop get by as just a service centre?
|
Posted by burke ryder at 07:17 PM on 05-11-2011
When I read something like this, I think this person is paying much less than I am at the LBS for parts. I'll continue to do my buying online and my own wrenching
All this is, is evolution in the retail bike industry.
Everything evolves. Adapt or die!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by the Master Plan Dan
(Post 2521158)
Well said Paulo! Never bought anything on line.
|
All this is, is evolution in the retail bike industry.
Everything evolves. Adapt or die!
Posted by jvp at 07:24 PM on 05-11-2011
Does the author pay full retail for his parts?
Does the author pay full retail for his parts?
Posted by dclxvi at 07:37 PM on 05-11-2011
same here. I've never been so proud in my life
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mishtar
(Post 2521212)
On a totally unrleated matter is anyone else seeing my post count show up as 4,294,967,280. No idea what is up with that.
|
Posted by Mishtar at 07:41 PM on 05-11-2011
No it is ok just made me LOL. I think I may have an actual post count of 30 if I am lucky:)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cam@nsmb.com
(Post 2521216)
4,294,967,281 now. It seems to be keeping track accurately.
Mishtar - you should maybe consider getting out more. ;) It's a glitch that we have just decided to laugh at. If it bothers you we can fix it for you. |
Posted by dclxvi at 07:43 PM on 05-11-2011
Lambert and Norco should just start selling their parts online, at dealer cost. Mouhouhahahaha!!!!!
Lambert and Norco should just start selling their parts online, at dealer cost. Mouhouhahahaha!!!!!
Posted by Mishtar at 07:46 PM on 05-11-2011
How about products that are from Canadian companies? You can get a RockyMountain bike shipped from Jenson USA to Blaine Washington and save around $500. Depending on the model. Is that not a bike that is shipped from Canada to the US, so should it not be cheaper to just buy one up here in Canada?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FlipFantasia
(Post 2521368)
just to repeat, again....Shops have no control over that kind of thing. They are forced to buy from a distributor at a set price...your anger is misplaced.
|
Posted by Mishtar at 07:51 PM on 05-11-2011
Really? My Ford dealer charges $80 and hour and my local bike shop, or at least one of them charges $70. Not much of a difference considering how much more my vehicle is worth and the extra knowledge and equipment thay have paid for.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tom
(Post 2521413)
This. It astounds me how cheap bike shops labour rates are.
|
Posted by enduramil at 08:17 PM on 05-11-2011
I just heard today a woman bitching about how much the labour on her car costs yet the part is so cheap, according to her.
Kind of funny when you think about it, a guy will shell out $1,000 on a fork then complain about the $30 the shop charges to install it in 30 minutes. If it was a car the labour would have been way higher.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Tom
(Post 2521413)
This. It astounds me how cheap bike shops labour rates are.
|
Kind of funny when you think about it, a guy will shell out $1,000 on a fork then complain about the $30 the shop charges to install it in 30 minutes. If it was a car the labour would have been way higher.
Posted by rm. at 09:02 PM on 05-11-2011
The LBS can't compete on commodity price with the internet sellers.
Go to your LBS for Service. Demo bikes there, get to know each other, buy a bike or two there. Don't grind him down for the last $100. The relationship you have with your LBS will pay off in spades. Buy your tires and drive trains off the internet but take your bike in once in a while for service on your fork. Maybe pay the extra money to buy a pair of shoes or a nice shirt from your LBS. When you have to take your (you fill in the blank) back for warranty they will know you by name and and the process will go much better.
If your LBS isn't interested in some sort of relationship with you, find a different LBS.
The LBS can't compete on commodity price with the internet sellers.
Go to your LBS for Service. Demo bikes there, get to know each other, buy a bike or two there. Don't grind him down for the last $100. The relationship you have with your LBS will pay off in spades. Buy your tires and drive trains off the internet but take your bike in once in a while for service on your fork. Maybe pay the extra money to buy a pair of shoes or a nice shirt from your LBS. When you have to take your (you fill in the blank) back for warranty they will know you by name and and the process will go much better.
If your LBS isn't interested in some sort of relationship with you, find a different LBS.
Posted by BareFootMeshback at 09:03 PM on 05-11-2011
I think if bike shops try and turn this into a guilt trip/battle they are going to lose. If they focus on customer service, remember names and fix your crap right before that big Whistler trip they will do just fine and will keep building loyalty.
I think if bike shops try and turn this into a guilt trip/battle they are going to lose. If they focus on customer service, remember names and fix your crap right before that big Whistler trip they will do just fine and will keep building loyalty.
Posted by Tom at 09:25 PM on 05-11-2011
I bet your ford dealer has a 1 hour minimum labour charge. How many bike shops have that?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mishtar
(Post 2521451)
Really? My Ford dealer charges $80 and hour and my local bike shop, or at least one of them charges $70. Not much of a difference considering how much more my vehicle is worth and the extra knowledge and equipment thay have paid for.
|
Posted by Straw at 09:34 PM on 05-11-2011
A shop I worked at had $1 minute labour charge. For whatever that's worth. It might be more now.
A shop I worked at had $1 minute labour charge. For whatever that's worth. It might be more now.
Posted by Bryce at 11:59 AM on 05-12-2011
What prevents Canadian retailers from buying direct from the same sources that Jenson and CRC buy from?
What prevents Canadian retailers from buying direct from the same sources that Jenson and CRC buy from?
Posted by craw at 12:04 PM on 05-12-2011
Distribution agreements ensure some level of exclusivity. i.e. Norco becomes the Canadian source for product X in Canada; All dealers who want product X have to go through Norco. That explains part of the price jump since the distributor/middleman take a cut for their troubles.
This is also why some dealers got mad at the ShopZ because their self-named bike line entitled them to manufacturer's pricing on components which had a way of sneaking onto the shop floor at very low prices.
Distribution agreements ensure some level of exclusivity. i.e. Norco becomes the Canadian source for product X in Canada; All dealers who want product X have to go through Norco. That explains part of the price jump since the distributor/middleman take a cut for their troubles.
This is also why some dealers got mad at the ShopZ because their self-named bike line entitled them to manufacturer's pricing on components which had a way of sneaking onto the shop floor at very low prices.
Posted by shirk at 12:18 PM on 05-12-2011
Volume and capital.
CRC does purchase some brands from their local distributor just like regular retail shops do. In order to be ultra competitive they sell at almost zero margin on these. Hard for a local shop to compete with a very well capitalized organization that is willing to blend all of their margins and work off volume.
I suspect CRC is also taking advantage of some OEM loop holes, jumping on any closeout offers, and trying to circumvent distributors at any chance. Low margins on high volume.
Smart local retail shops are likely trying to do what they can on a small scale. A really smart shop would be heading to Taiwan for the Taipei bike show instead of going to Interbike and bro brahing in Vegas.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryce
(Post 2521696)
What prevents Canadian retailers from buying direct from the same sources that Jenson and CRC buy from?
|
CRC does purchase some brands from their local distributor just like regular retail shops do. In order to be ultra competitive they sell at almost zero margin on these. Hard for a local shop to compete with a very well capitalized organization that is willing to blend all of their margins and work off volume.
I suspect CRC is also taking advantage of some OEM loop holes, jumping on any closeout offers, and trying to circumvent distributors at any chance. Low margins on high volume.
Smart local retail shops are likely trying to do what they can on a small scale. A really smart shop would be heading to Taiwan for the Taipei bike show instead of going to Interbike and bro brahing in Vegas.
Posted by enduramil at 01:08 PM on 05-12-2011
Maybe some bike shop owners should spend some time at Simon's on Robson. That guy is the master of the sale. I think he was the first guy Rocky called for any old stock they wanted to get rid off.
Maybe some bike shop owners should spend some time at Simon's on Robson. That guy is the master of the sale. I think he was the first guy Rocky called for any old stock they wanted to get rid off.
Posted by Guest at 07:24 PM on 01-02-2012
Ahhhhh
Now I see why there's so many JAFA's in Whis....
Stocking up on cheap bikes and parts!
Ahhhhh
Now I see why there's so many JAFA's in Whis....
Stocking up on cheap bikes and parts!
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