REVIEW
CushCore Trail Inserts
A Brief History Of CushCore
The original CushCore Pro inserts weigh about 270 grams per wheel in a 29" size. That extra 270 grams per wheel matters to a lot of folks. I can think of a half dozen local riders who used to be on the full CushCore Pro team but are now running no inserts at all. They were raving about the damping, raving about the rim protection and raving about the run-flat capabilities. Then they took them out and were raving about the spritely acceleration their bikes now encourage.
And I can hear you saying "It's rolling weight!" The thing is, as with any 'train heavy, race light' situation, CushCore Pro inserts only feel heavy twice. The day you put them in, and the day you take them out.
A significant increase in shaping marks a further departure from the hunk-of-rubber form of the original CushCore Pro inserts.
Installation is no more difficult than CushCore XC but thanks to the new shape, the more progressive support is similar to CushCore Pro when cornering.
Since the advent of CushCore, the brand has been trying to overcome two criticisms. The first is the widely accepted claim that they are difficult to install. This has spawned a whole industry of "easier-to-install" but less effective inserts. The other perceived flaw is that they are heavy and that rolling weight matters, even outside of cross-country racing.
A friend has been calling the brand's XC inserts "CushCore Trail" since they came out and selling them to numerous riders who want some rim and sidewall protection without the beef. They're easier to install, over 100 grams lighter per wheel, and still offer some level of rim protection.
The XC inserts do not provide anywhere near the damping effect or support of the Pro model, but combined with heavier-duty-sidewall tires like Maxxis' DoubleDown or Schwable's Super Gravity, many riders consider this a benefit. And with lighter rubber, there's still enough support to drop a couple of psi while also adding bottom-out protection.
For another take on CushCore XC inserts in DoubleDown tires, check out Ryan Walter's first look piece on the new Rocky Mountain Slayer, which includes them as stock spec.
CushCore XC provides rim protection and bottom-out bumper action with a bit of cornering support.
For an extra 65 grams per wheel, CushCore Trail installs as easily as the XC setup but provides performance much closer to the Pro version.
I didn't have a scale photo of CushCore Pro (~270 grams) handy so here is a shot of the Plus insert I run in front of my rigid bike. Pro & Plus still wins when it comes to run-flat capabilities.
Trail Tuned
It's surprising how much CushCore Trail inserts ride like CushCore Pro, largely thanks to the more involved shape. In the same EXO+ 29x2.4" DHRII tire, CushCore Trail sound like a Goldilocks option. For those who dislike installing CushCore Pro, the Trail inserts are more similar to installing XC inserts .
While the XC inserts allow me to drop some pressure, I've been running the same pressures with CushCore Trail that I normally run with CushCore Pro. This varies by application, internal rim width, tire sidewall, and of course tire volume, but in a 2.4-to-2.6" trail tire on an i30 rim, that's generally somewhere around 18-to-20psi.
On the We Are One Arrival 130 build, I'm running CushCore Trail front and rear. Combined with the right EXO+ rubber, this would suit most riders in most places where rim strikes and snake bites are legitimate concerns.
One obvious hole in my review is that I have not run the Trail inserts in a tire with a beefier casing than a Maxxis EXO+, Schwalbe Super Trail, Bontrager SE, or WTB Light. I'm hoping to be able to report on any actual differences in experience running a DoubleDown or Super Gravity level tire in the future, but I have ridden both those casings with CushCore Pro so I feel confident extrapolating.
When I started writing this review, I was riding three bikes with CushCore Trail inserts installed. This was my initial setup.
- We Are One Arrival A170 & A130: Rear Only. Maxxis DHRII EXO+ MaxTerra 29x2.4"
- Marin El Roy: Front & Rear. Maxxis Assegai EXO+ MaxxGrip 29x2.5" Front || Bontrager SE6 29x.25" Rear
- Banshee Engima: Rear Only (Front: CushCore Plus). Schwalbe Rock Razor 27x2.6" Super Trail
A number of folks told me that mulleting the Marin El Roy with the stock 140mm fork would make the bottom bracket too low. Adding a bit of IRT pressure to the Manitou Mattoc helps keep everything riding higher. (Photo: The Clairebarian)
I have been stuffing the rear wheel into way more stuff - thank you CushCore - and giving this 32t NSBillet ring, and my poor chain, a good bashing. The Talon cranks use Race Face's Cinch interface, so at some point, they'll have a bash guard installed.
Up and down I prefer the mullet setup. (Photo: Penny)
Mechanical Mea Culpa
I need to take a brief aside here to eat a bit of humble pie. I'm a big fan of the most phallic bicycle tool on the market, CushCore's Bead Dropper, but I admit I laughed hard when they released their Bead Bro tool. Who the heck needs a tool to hold the tire bead in place while mounting it?
Apparently, when the tire in question is a 27" Schwalbe and I'm asking it to jump on a Stan's Flow rim, I do. The Schwalbe tire was so damn tight that none of my typical tricks were working and the bead just kept pulling off as a I mounted it. If I only use the Bead Bro this one time in my life, I'd still say that when it's needed, it's worth every penny of the 13 USD it commands.
This 27x2.6" Schwalbe Big Betty Super Trail tire is the tightest rubber I can remember ever putting on a rim. Nothing to do with the CushCore insert even, at one point I checked to be sure I hadn't bought a 26" tire. Bead Bro is a winner here.
The No Run-Flat Factor
A tire with CushCore Trail installed feels distinctly less full than a tire with CushCore Pro. There's still quite a bit of support when the tire is leaned over or when run soft for greasy root running - significantly more than the XC version - but the insert itself isn't noticeable until further through the tire's travel.
On my El Roy hardtail, I actually prefer the CushCore Trail insert in the back over the CushCore Pro. With the 27x2.6" wheel I feel like I'm getting more "travel" without sacrificing much support at around 18-19psi. Up front, running a 2.5" Assegai, the extra volume of air is still supportive. CushCore XC did not work for me on this bike, but I was surprised to realize I prefer the Trail setup over Pro.
My grom delighted far too much in letting all of the air out of my tire for this test. She was "busy looking at something on [her] bike" when it came time to reinflate.
It didn't take any riding to know that CushCore Trail is, unfortunately, a close match for CushCore XC on the run-flat capability front. That is to say, there is none. (Photo: The Clairebarian).
There are very few issues that tire plugs and a pump can't solve, but on my middle-of-somewhere bike Pro inserts will maintain my devotion. (Photo: The Clairebarian)
So Trail over Pro? It's not that simple. On my El Roy, I'm quite happy with the CushCore Trail inserts and I can say the same for the We Are One Arrival in its A130 format. Pushing myself much harder on the A170? I'd prefer the faster tire ramp-up and extra support of CushCore Pro. Or, it seems likely that I'd be happy running the Trail inserts with a heavier tire casing, like Maxxis DoubleDown, achieving more support from the tires themselves.
On the Enigma, I've also gone back to a CushCore Pro in the rear tire. Running a semi-slick I want to be able to cheat pressures lower sometimes (I'll air the 27x2.6" RockRazor down as low as 15-16psi with a Pro insert) and with that being my adventure bike, and sometimes my commuter bike, I also want the run-flat capabilities the Pro brings.
With zero psi, I can pedal a CushCore Pro setup home, but the CushCore Trail inserts are unfortunately unrideable.
With the current EXO+ rubber, I'd much prefer the extra support and more damped ride of CushCore Pro inserts on the A170. Or, maybe the CushCore Trail inserts with a heavy casing tire, like DoubleDown, would be my unicorn?
Arrivals
My CushCore Trail experience, now running the inserts both front and rear on the Arrival in different guises, has shown me that the hole in my process is trying to run the same rubber on all the platforms. I should be on faster rolling tires when playing on the A130 and I should be on more supportive tires when I'm riding the A170, and these Trail inserts would probably pair perfectly with both setups.
On the A130 or A150, CushCore Trail with EXO+ tires is right on the money. But, I do pine for faster rubber on the 130mm Arrival setup. Say a pair of Forekasters or a Forekaster rear with a DHF up front?
Costing Out CushCore Inserts
At a weight savings of around 50 grams a wheel, why choose CushCore Trail over the Pro setup? By tuning tire damping via tire casing instead of insert size, the Trail inserts bring easier installation, excellent bottom-out protection, and progressive support that I find indistinguishable from the Pro model when my bike is leaned over.
On my hardtail, the 'less full' tire feeling when I'm chunking down janky sections actually feels like I've added some travel, and I'm carrying plugs and a pump which should be enough to get me out of almost any flat tire situation.
On the rigid bike, I'm back to running the Pro insert in the rear, complemented by Plus insert for my massive front tire. This comes down to wanting to be able to run lower tire pressures and also for the run-flat feature as that's the bike I'm most likely to be in the middle of somewhere with.
Here's a recap of my final setup:
- We Are One Arrival A170 & A130: Front & Rear. Maxxis Assegai EXO+ MaxxTerra 29x2.5" Front || DHRII EXO+ MaxTerra 29x2.4" Rear
- Marin El Roy: Front & Rear. Maxxis Assegai EXO+ MaxxGrip 29x2.5" Front || Schwalbe Big Betty 27x2.6" Super Trail Soft Rear
- Banshee Engima: No Trail inserts. CushCore Plus Front || CushCore Pro Rear
On the Enigma, I'm running a massive CushCore Plus insert in the 29x3" Bontrager SE4 I'm running in front and a CushCore Pro insert in RockRazor I have in the rear. Run-flat and low-low pressure capabilities front and rear.
Riders who like CushCore Pro but would like the inserts to be less present, are going to get along great with the Trail model. That could be the all-mountain rider looking for extra cornering support and bottom-out support from an otherwise very supple riding tire. That could be the freerider who finds the combination of a DoubleDown of DH casing and Pro insert is too dead feeling.
Riders who like CushCore XC inserts but would trade just over 100 grams between two wheels to go from, just some rim-and-tire-casing-protection, to actual-progressive-cornering-support, will love making the move to Trail.
Riders who have ditched riding with a pump, tube, plugs, etc. because they'll run flat after a puncture on their CushCore Pro setup, are not a match for these. Riders who love the extra mid-stroke and riding on a bumper feeling or who want to run low-low pressures, aren't either. Those riders are going to want to stick with a Pro, or Plus for big rubber, setup.
July 2023 on the North Shore: A new old stock (NOS) Bontrager SE4 3" tire. A CushCore Plus insert I've been riding consistently since 2019. This ARC 40 rim is now five years old.
Race Face still sells the ARC 40 rim, and it's even been updated to the current offset version. Shown here with a CushCore Plus insert I bought used. The inserts seem to last forever!?
There's of course a cost to CushCore, beyond grams. A CushCore Trail setup runs 150 USD for the pair including valve stems. The inserts last forever in my experience, so riders who've already invested in a Pro or XC setup may choose to just keep amortizing. Personally, CushCore XC didn't add enough to my experience to justify the cost, but if I'd never ridden the new Trail inserts, I would have been quite happy on the original Pro model.
On bikes like the Arrival or my El Roy, the Trail setup seems like the natural choice; rim and tire protection, bottom-out bumper action, excellent support leaned over, a more natural, less-damped ride and a softer, but equally supportive feeling ride using similar pressures. I don't much care about the weight difference, but I can still hear some folks saying - "It's rolling weight!"
Height - Steve Buscemi-ish
Wait - Patiently
Ape Index - T-Rex
Age - The same as DOS
Favourite Trail(s) every week - Pipeline (thank you Ken!) to Lower Crippler (thank you Andy!)
Favourite Song(s) this week - I'm Your Man. Nick Cave (covering Leonard Cohen)
Favourite Colour - Cosmic Lilac
Bar Width - It depends
Reach & Stack & ETT - It depends
Crank Length - 175mm except when it's 170mm
Wheel Size - Hot For Mullets
Comments
Suns_PSD
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Insert comment here...
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
It’s taking you a long time to insert this comment… have you tried using a large plastic garbage can or buying a CushCore Bead Dropper?
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Cee Cee
9 months, 2 weeks ago
...carry a tube.
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Shinook
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I've been running Pro for years to help deal with the constant chasing of neuropathy pain in my hand. I was really skeptical, but I'd try anything at this point and it came recommended. I pretty much day one became a fan as it not only reduced fatigue, but helped support the side of the tires under my ~215lbs of weight on a big heavy enduro bike, especially supporting it more in corners. I played around with them a bit and eventually got to a place where I run it (..get this...) front only on most of my bikes aside from my bigger bikes, which I ran front and rear.
I think one of the great shames of these inserts is how people focused and emphasized the protection entirely after it first came out, ignoring the support and damped feeling it gives you, along with reduced fatigue and improved traction. I meet so many who run it rear only for protection, but never bothered trying it in the front or experimenting with pressures, missing so much of the benefit IMO. IIRC at the time it was released, CC called it "suspension for your tires" or something similar and that just feels right. I get a little depressed for riders who get inserts and only run them in the rear, because there are cheaper/lighter rim protection only solutions and you miss so much of the benefits running CC rear only. I feel like you get such a better feel out of the bike running them front and rear or just in the front, where you benefit most from the support and improved traction, but you obviously lose the protection for the rear doing front only.
I similarly heard nightmare stories about installation process and have to wonder if people followed instructions or just tried to hamfist it and lost. I never had an issue with installation on many tires (Specialized, Maxxis, WTB, Vittoria, Continental, Teravail), but removal is a different story. I consistently have had problems trying to break the bead on a CC install to the point that some tires (WTB Verdict in particular), I had to butterfly the tire like a steak to get it off the rim.
I've recently been playing around with Andreani's Mousse inserts. They are much lighter, easier to install, and are supposedly a run flat solution. There is very little info circulating on these, but so far I've found them to have a real similar feel despite a vastly different shape. I've rolled around asphalt on flat and it seems to hold up fine, but I've had minimal time to invest in playing with pressures the way I did with CC and seeing where the optimal point is or how they compare. I do have less concerns with being stranded and unable to remove a tire trailside with these though. Time will tell...
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Ride.DMC
9 months, 2 weeks ago
When I installed CC Pro inserts recently the first thing I noticed was the damping - that's the best thing about it for sure.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I absolutely agree ride quality, while often not the reason folks buy into inserts, is my favourite feature.
I hit on it in the first paragraph, but admit I could have done more to drive home the fact that while the Trail inserts feel very similar to the Pro inserts in terms of support leaned over, the tires feel "less full" when they're in place. Damping is still good, but not on the same level as the Pro.
"I can think of a half dozen local riders who used to be on the full CushCore Pro team but are now running no inserts at all. They were raving about the damping, raving about the rim protection and raving about the run-flat capabilities. Then they took them out and were raving about the spritely acceleration their bikes now encourage."
That said, it's something I notice keenly, especially in enjoying my obsession with rigid bikes and Plus tires.
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Onawalk
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Off topic,
I really want to know more about the A130, It or the Druid (jeez its heavy) might just be my unicorn short travel, play bike. Both will do a mixed wheel setup, and look to be a tonne of fun. rumour is the new Optic might just be an idler equipped HP bike as well, so that'll be in the running too i suspect.
Upcoming review on the A130 sometime soon?
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
My review comparing the A130/A150/A170 is a little ways out yet. But, I have been swapping forks and links a bunch and I suspect there will be a taster on the game of forks I’ve been playing up on the main page pretty soon.
That’s all I’m going to say for now beyond dropping this photo of the 160/130 Darrivco build I’ve been riding. Very much my jam. I would absolutely run it as a mullet if it weren’t my wheels are all B-148 not SB-157.
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Onawalk
9 months, 1 week ago
Ah-friggin-mazing!
Onawalk
9 months, 1 week ago
Side note, If you drop it off up here in the Okanagan I'd be happy to test it out in a mullet configuration for you....and for science, anything for science
Allen Lloyd
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Thoughts on the Schwalbe Rock Razor? I am currently riding a similar looking tread from Specilized and love how fast it rolls. Schwalbe have usually felt grippier in general and I have been itching to try a Rock Razor.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I prefer the shape of the 2.6” RockRazor over that of the 2.6” (s)Laughter when it comes to how/when the side knobs contact the ground (i30 rim) but that’s splitting vent spews.
I’ve run the Specialized on an i35 (which is usually a win with 2.6” rubber) but, as with the Schwalbe, I prefer it in an i30.
In both cases they roll fast and provide surprising traction in all situations until they don’t.
My biggest complaint in box cases has been that the 2.6” versions are not available in 29’er sizes. But now that I’m full time on mullets with my own bikes it’s an aside.
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Allen Lloyd
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I tried the Slaughter with a Magic Mary and the grip levels were too different. After switching to a Butcher up front it has a nice balance. They roll so fast on my local hardpack trails it is like a cheat code. BUT when you need to slow down the braking ability is limited to say the least.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Depends on the setup certainly. On a hardtail a semi out back and full-knobby front seem to match up better than on a FS bike.
On something like the A130 I’d pair a semi-slick with something faster. DHF or Butcher versus Assegai or Mary.
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Tjaard Breeuwer
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I found the (s)Laughter 2.8 to shape up to square on a 35 mm rim, while normally I’d consider that on the narrow end for a 2.8.
The 2.6 on the 30mm rim was just doable for me, but a 28mm rim might be even better.
That’s one drawback of those semi slicks, rim shape matters so much. To wide, and you lose the fast rolling advantage, to narrow of a rim and you effectively just have a full slick.
After reading some more tire tests in German Mag Bikelast fall, I realized tread design doesn’t matter as much for rolling resistance as we used to think, so I feel ok choosing a tire with slightly bigger knobs for the rear, while still being fast rolling.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Certainly my experience with semi-slicks is the same. Rim width matters so much. And I’m usually someone putting tires on wider rims (like 2.6” on i40) to make tires more square, but with any semi a more round profile is best.
As to tire profile. Throw a bunch of gears on my bike and send me out for a long ride, does my Big Betty 2.6” add climbing time over my Rock Razor 2.6”? I’d believe you if the study said no. But on my #1FG bike - which is as directly connected a rider & rubber get this side of Dixie riding - I FEEL the difference. And that’s where even though the lack of straight line braking or grip-on-grease bites me a few times a year I keep going back to the semi.
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hongeorge
9 months, 2 weeks ago
They have apparently discontinued the Rock Razor, so if you want to try it, be quick.....
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That's interesting, the 27x2.6" Super Trail / Speed Grip version I like doesn't appear to be on deep discount anywhere. I have a spare, but if they go on clear out I'd pick up at least one more.
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steelispossiblyreal
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm of the mind that Cushcore is one of the greatest things to happen to bicycles (after tubeless tires and dropper posts). Thanks for giving us a shootout on all 3. I might have to swap out my Pro for Trail one of these days.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I’m, obviously, all in on the idea of inserts. It’s crazy to me that for how I ride they’ve essentially made aluminum rims immortal.
I’ve actually re-spoked a number of used rims now that cosmetically look like crap but lace up as new.
I wouldn’t, personally, buy Trail inserts if I already owned the Pro model. But they do deliver Vs. CushCore XC for how most folks I know use the XC inserts.
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hongeorge
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Would be interested your thoughts on Rimpact, which are much much lighter and cheaper than Cushcore, and by all accounts much easier to install. Had good results with them myself, curious if Cushcore would really offer a benefit over them
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
With some very rare exceptions - always 26" or 27" DH-casing tires with CushCore Pro inserts - I don't find CushCore hard to install, and actually, many of the other systems, if anything, are more awkward to get into place since they float inside the tire.
The only other inserts I have any kind of real trail time on are Tannus, but I have installed many different systems in my other gig as a wrench and compared notes with their owners. From that, my only real thoughts on other currently available systems are I'm not interested. If any systems do come up that I think could compare to the CC then I'd be very eager to ride/review them.
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*edit:
I've not actually seen a Rimpact Pro V2 in person and from the description I'd be quite eager to give those a try.
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Ryan Walters
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm also very Rimpact curious as of late. I see they make a DH version as well, which is still lighter than CC Pro.
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Gage Wright
9 months, 2 weeks ago
They market them as disposable last time I checked. I don't know exactly how many tire change cycles or years you would get but my guess would be less than the cushcore.
Graham Driedger
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I've not read about Rimpact being disposable, nor have I heard anecdotes of them falling apart after tire changes, but I could be wrong and internet is gonna internet.
Ditto on the Rimpact curiosity.
Tjaard Breeuwer
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I have used and swapped plenty of tires with inserts in my house.
Cushcore pro,
Cushcore pro plus size
Tannus tubeless,
Rimpact regular, plus size
Rimpact pro
Rimpact EDH (extra thick and wide).
I have no trouble installing them most of the time, and I am no pro mechanics, nor am I a strong guy. I do use the garbage can and Bead dropper tool, and usually pre install the tire without the insert first.
Rimpact EDH is similar to install as Cushcore, maybe a hair easier because they have sloping shoulders where they hit the rim, so a bit easier to push to the side.
Vik Banerjee
9 months, 2 weeks ago
When I have swapped fresh tires on my bike and had a chance to examine an insert [Tannus] with multiple years of use it seems to me that it's a buy once use [almost] forever product. I'm not complaining, but seems like a challenge for a company dedicated to inserts to stay in business once the insert friendly/curious segment has been fully penetrated.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'll offer that, like dropper posts, insert sales will transition to a largely OE rather than aftermarket product stream. CushCore, for example, has an ever-increasing number of OE partners, particularly at the pedal-assisted-motoring end of the BroPed market. I can only imagine those inserts will not be transferred from machine to machine but rather sold with the rigs at replacement time. Which, regardless of how one feels about e-bikes, is absolutely a shorter lifespan than meat-powered mountain bicycles.
As I see it, that adds up to a continuing and plentiful demand for inserts.
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Ryan Walters
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Don't give the insert companies any ideas! You know they'll start developing rubber compounds that self destruct after a season of use!
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Vik Banerjee
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I thought inserts that slowly dissolved into more sealant could be a thing. You wouldn't run out of sealant, but at some point you'd need new inserts. If they could align the insert lifespan with a tire lifespan that would be useful. Costs would have to make sense of course, but if you knew you'd sell inserts more frequently you could charge less for each one.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Jokes about inserts aside, I'm surprised that no one is selling a time-capsule sealant secretion system that re-energizes sealant as it dries out over time.
There could be a simple version that slowly dissolves and then a significantly more expensive battery-powered version that can be controlled from an app (as long as the battery is charged).
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Cooper Quinn
9 months, 2 weeks ago
[Deleted as I see the subscription based humor horse has been suitably flogged below.]
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Ah. I’d love to hear the humerous inside take of someone riding multiple bikes with wireless drivetrains not to mention Flight Attendant suspension.
IslandLife
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I had been running Tannus for a couple years. A buddy got a set a few months ago and never ended up using them as his whole plan sort of changed... anyway he gave them to me to sell or do whatever. I just put them aside in my shop at the time.
Then I had to pull one of my own to swap a tire and was pretty surprised at how much stiffer the new set was vs my two year old one.
It sort of confirmed my suspicions... leading up to that point I was beginning to get a few more rim dingers and seemed to be needing more air pressure than what I was used to running. Thought maybe I was just riding faster and harder... sadly that's not the case.
When I swapped them I immediately noticed that they felt "new" again... like they did when I first installed them. Rim dingers disappeared again and I could go back to my previous pressures.
So... It seem they may soften up over time and begin to lose their supportive and protective qualities? Just one anecdotal case... would be good to hear from others. It's tough to tell and only by chance when I was able to compare them to a new set did I really notice it.
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Vik Banerjee
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Alternatively the inserts could have small capsule of dissolving agent and if you don't pay the annual insert subscription fee the timer goes off and the insert nukes itself.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I truly hope that a decade from now that we can look back at all the jokes about subscription-based bicycle tech as misplaced dark humour rather than being the vehicles to deliver portent predictions they feel like right now.
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Suns_PSD
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I do feel there isn't enough BT connectivity in my current tire insert product.
Jeez, I started this as a joke but as far as monitoring tire pressure a reuseable sensor in the insert would make more sense than that TireWiz thing.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm laughing as I've submitted a piece about TyreWiz - which I should note I've never used myself. I've actually started to see the ($300!) system more frequently on the trails locally.
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Ryan Walters
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks for the nightmare fuel, lol.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
"Thanks for the nightmare fuel, lol."
With me, it's all part of the long game (for Ryan), HAHAHA.
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Ryan Walters
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Gonna be a really long game!
Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
@Ryan,
Me, you, Jerry Willows, swapping stories and sipping on iced-dirty-chai-lattes after pedaling a couple of epic Seymour laps on our rigid single-speeds.
We'll aim for 2030 and see if we can't get there a bit sooner.
#JerryWillowsHatesMyBike
Cr4w
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I say we add batteries.
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schwalbai
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Sweet article Andrew. The topic of tire inserts is always a fun one to discuss, and your review of the CushCore Trail setup certainly did it justice.
Stans rims generally play well with Schwalbe tires (which meets etrto sizing spec), so that is interesting to hear it caused you so much difficulty.
For insert installs, bead clips like the Bead Pro, or the clip end of Schwalbe Tire Levers, have saved my ass more times then I can count. I like that it gives you the ability to move the mounted parts of the tire so that the mounted bead is fully in the rim channel, releasing any tension you may be working against.
Finishing at the valve when mounting the second bead also greatly helps.
Regarding the difficulties you had mounting the Betty Super Trail, i'd be curious to hear what tape was used (and what the layup procedure was). High quality and thin tape, like that from DT Swiss, is what I've found generally works best.
Hope your experience with the Betty has been solid otherwise!
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Cheers,
Using Stan’s tape. I’m usually a Gorilla Tape user but the rims I’m on came pre-taped from Stan’s.
I actually re-taped the Flow on the Enigma with Stan’s tape as well, as the Rock Razor 2.6” I run on that was (perfectly, in that case) tight as well.
Betty is an interesting tire. Surprisingly good rolling with wicked traction up steep loose pitches. It’s not as much fun as the Rock Razor (haha) but it suites the El Roy well. The tire and rim have taken a beating - certainly punch the 27” rear hoop into more stuff than the 29”.
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fartymarty
9 months, 2 weeks ago
As a tape aside try Tesa 4289 (if you can get it in Canadia). It's the same as everyone elses tubeless tape but a ton cheaper. IIRC I got 60m for £10 (and a bit for postage) cut to width.
Whilst Gorilla tape works it leave nasty sticky stuff in the rim and can get caught under stubborn tyres making it really hard to get offf.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Gorilla Tape residue is only an issue if you aren’t just going to tape over it again. On my five-year-old ARC40 I have residue on residue.
(On residue, on residue)
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Suns_PSD
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm quite the fan of inserts but have sort of settled on the Rimpacts. I never tried the CC just because my Weight Weenism just couldn't deal with the old weights and now I'm very happy with my current choice.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
You're using the original Rimpact or their more significant Pro system?
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Suns_PSD
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I think I use the original in the front & the Pro in the rear.
Before inserts I had to run DD but with inserts I rarely hurt tires any longer so have dropped to lighter tires all around.
Also have the XC version in my wife's bike just because she doesn't know how to fix a tire trailside (or anywhere for that matter) so I just told her to ride back slowly if she gets a flat.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I was the same way, even when I first switched to running inserts I still was on DD, WTB Tough, Super Grav. But I found with the tire supported from inside I could get a nicer ride from lighter casings without, thus far, impacting survivability.
I get asked a fair bit if we run inserts in my Wife’s bike. She’s running 27x2.8 Specialized Butcher Grid Trail tires at ~13/14psi and hasn’t had any issues with flats or sidewalk durability. If that changes inserts might be an answer, but only if it’s something that can genuinely be ridden flat.
Worst case, with these Trail inserts I’m definitely relying on my skills with bacon strips to get my tire back up to pressure but the inserts should offer a lot of peace of mind in that record and prevent any rim related failures. But I wouldn’t ride home on them like Pro/Plus in a 0psi situation.
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Suns_PSD
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Andrew, so I actually have inserts in all 3 bikes (2 for me, 1 for the wife, kid's bike doesn't have them) and I quit carrying a tube or a pump. Essentially last time I killed a tire it weighed 1370 grams, and no matter what we and my friends did, we could not get a tube to hold air in that thing and I ended up walking about 9 miles, in clipless shoes.
So my theory now is I have an insert that I can ride home slowly on (in addition to all of the other advantages) and I just try and repair a slash using bacon strips and CO2 cartridges. But if I'm unable to repair I'll still ride back to the trail head on it just slowly and walking here and there.
Worth pointing out is that tire failures are much more rare with the inserts.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
“Worth pointing out is that tire failures are much more rare with the inserts.”
100%
“…kid's bike doesn't have them”
In our household I’m the only one on inserts.
None of us carries a tube, but I’m very on top of sealant and we all have plugs.
My wife is on the Butchers and then Clairebarian is running 24x2.4 Minion DHF tires.
Not out of any concern about flats or rim strikes, but thinking about traction this winter, I’ve been pondering hacking up one of my CushCore XC inserts and making a kiddo-sized insert for the back of her hardtail and then really cheating on pressure. We’ll see, could be interesting either way?!
Shackleton
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I remember that you were keen on the Tannus inserts, how would you compare them to the cushcore offerings? Which would be equivalent?
I have tannus front and rear but am going to take the rear out as it didn't seem to deliver much extra traction while also providing negligible protection. Or rather it could deliver traction but at pressures where it then provided no protection. I'm keen to find a substitute.....
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I've never reviewed/written a piece about Tannus.
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Shackleton
9 months, 2 weeks ago
My bad, sorry. The power of Google tells me that it was actually Cam....right website at least.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
All good, just seems to be a popular misconception.
I’ve ridden Tannus and installed many examples but beyond that I consider it a product whose primary design goals are thought-free installs followed by minimal weight, neither of which is a top priority for me with inserts.
I don’t ever recommend it to customers in the shop. Run more air pressure/beefier tires or run CushCore. I would like to try the Rimpact Enduro Pro inserts as a comparison but to date I haven’t come across anything that’s in the same category as CC Pro/Plus, with these Trail inserts offering the biggest trade-off for weight/install I’d consider acceptable before just forgoing inserts altogether.
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Skooks
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree that inserts are a game changer for aluminum rim longevity. I run a Tannus insert on the rear only with EXO casing tires. I can run significantly lower pressure with zero rim strikes or tire damage. I don't feel the need to run one in the front.
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JoeT
9 months, 2 weeks ago
After 4 seasons on Tubolight inserts this is my first season on Cush Core (XC). I run 19/21 psi on 28mm rims and i have a squeeking sound from it. My friend with the Pro version also got this sound after install.
Normal?
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I’ve never had a squeaking CC insert (CX, XC, Trail, Pro, or Plus) myself, nor had that feedback from customers for whom I’ve installed them - and I’ve worked on bikes for some properly persnickety people.
Not saying your CC isn’t squeaking. I’ve just never heard of such a thing.
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DancingWithMyself
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I can get some squeaking out of the pros. Not terrible or frequent, but it's there. Stopped using Tannus, partly bc squeaking way worse and bothered me too much. Orange seal, maxxis EXO and EXO+, WAO and Reserve rims, DT Swiss rim tape.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
That’s interesting. I wonder if it’s squeaking on the rim or the tire? Might be a carbon rim thing I haven’t considered as I usually run aluminum. Though I’m on carbon Stan’s Flow rims with the CC Trail and it hasn’t come up.
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DancingWithMyself
8 months, 3 weeks ago
Unions with DT Swiss tape. Orange seal (1/2 reg; 1/2 pro). Maxxis tires with EXO casing. Didn't get any squeaking until fairly recently.
My frustration with the Pros is that if I pull a tire, especially a rear tire, after a good bit of riding and then reinstall, it seems like there's at least a 20-30% chance I get a casing wobble. It's like after the casing has been ridden hard, it can't handle the uninstall and reinstall. I've gotten scared to pop a bead to free the stanimals.
I'm by no means a pro mechanic, but I can build a wheel, so I'm not a total slouch. Using a big trash can, moto bead lube, and all the cushcore tools and tricks. Trying to be as gentle as possible.
Pulled off a worn out tire yesterday in preparation to experiment with CC trail (thanks for the awesome review) + EXO and Conti DH casings. I think the squeak is coming from rim bed and CC interface. But I can't imagine this has anything to do with carbon vs aluminum, as I'm pretty sure the rim tape and tire keep the insert from any direct contact with the rim.
In inspecting things with the squeak in mind, I was fairly shocked at how easy the CC has become to slide on and off the rim. Like its stretched in diameter. Very, very few nicks from being pinched against the rim. Got a couple of years on it.
I'm about 215 and run somewhere between 25-28 psi in the rear depending on what I'm riding. Wheel sees time on an overstroked EXe (160/145) or a Banshee Titan. I'm fairly fast downhill for a 200+, 40-something, desk-jockey. But it's not like I'm some beast that regularly rips tires off rims without inserts.
Wonder if it's from lots of use in general, or from cornering forces? And if the latter, wonder if it indicates pressure that's too low? Next time I pull the other tire on the CC Pro wheelset I'll try to remember to report back in case it's useful to someone.
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canterbury
9 months, 2 weeks ago
The Rimpact Pro v2 just “won” in a 5 tire insert test on a certain German website I won’t name. Interesting how much lighter it is than CC
I currently run CC Pro rear only with exo+ and am fairly happy. Run DD front with no insert.
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IslandLife
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I've recently stopped using inserts (Tannus). Because, while I'm not a weight weenie, I like to keep things reasonable.
I was using them with EXO+ tires and thought I had a pretty good thing going until... I got a pretty good long gash through the tread on my rear tire that multiple slices of thick quality bacon just could not fix. I also got a pretty significant rim dent which I was able to fix pretty well. Little flat spot and some shiny metal, but works just fine.
I didn't have a tube... so I walked it out (wasn't too far). (Had bacon, CO2, a pump, etc, etc.)
But it got me thinking... so if the EXO+ tread isn't beefy enough for my riding, then I should upgrade to a DD in the rear... but if I'm going DD, do I need an insert and DD? And do I want all the weight of a DD tire plus an insert?
So, I pulled both inserts out for now... running a naked EXO+ up front and a naked DD in the rear. So far I feel like I'm actually missing the insert up front the most and the rear feels pretty good. Might put it back in the front and keep testing.
I also have to admit how much I'm enjoying being able to swap tires etc and not deal with an insert... I had gotten quite good at dealing with them, but not dealing with them, is very nice.
We'll see I guess.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I buy that, I notice the ride benefits (damping / traction / cornering support) significantly more up front where the rear is more about rim protection.
I mean, the rear definitely helps with traction (with lower pressure) but it’s less all-time noticeable.
DD tires with lighter inserts is common. I prefer a less beefy sidewall with more insert support - but I appreciate why folks go both ways.
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IslandLife
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes, I think that's what I'm noticing. I'm having to run higher pressures up front, and feeling less confident about my front end at higher speeds. Think I'm missing that traction/damping/support.
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MTB_THETOWN
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Count me among the former believers who got tired of the weight.
I also am convinced that they transfer rim impacts from the edge, which is designed for some impacts, to the rim bed, which is not. On an alloy rim you'd probably have wrecked the rim anyways if you get this kind of failure (which I have, and is what Stan's told me too), but on carbon you are potentially working against how them was designed to handle impacts. Carbon rims often have very thin rim beds to save weight, and instead have thicker bead to handle impacts. I sometimes use Cushcore on alloy wheels, but never carbon.
I am interested in trying them on my gravel bike though, but only for alloy rims
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
I stand by the idea that they're only heavy twice - the day you put them in & the day you take them out - and in exchange for that, you get a lot of benefits (damping, rim protection, etc). But to each their own.
------
The carbon rim thing I have to say has been going around a lot lately and, frankly, it's suspicious at best. The last person at a rim company who suggested it to me couldn't answer basic questions like "what percentage of your rim owners use inserts?" that would be necessary to determine whether a failure is more familiar with an insert installed.
That doesn't account for the, yes anecdotal, fact that folks who run inserts are more likely to be riders who've trashed rims in the past. As you allude to, folks who have no problems riding EXO tires on aluminum rims sans inserts are going out and chasing a couple of hundred grams of rolling weight.
There's also zero testing to determine what amounts and types of force acting on the insert would break a rim versus the rim being okay without an insert installed. I.E. while dents/dings don't happen with carbon rims (they're good, or they're broken) there's no evidence on massive impacts that what's true for aluminum isn't true for carbon as well: "On an alloy rim you'd probably have wrecked the rim anyways if you get this kind of failure."
I asked, if it's such an issue why don't carbon rim manufacturers tell riders not to use inserts, or void their warranties when inserts are used rather than using inserts, as it seems now, as a convenient boogieman when rims do fail? No reply.
Finally, years ago at Interbike, I had this conversation with an engineer from Reynold's about inserts - generally, and also specifically about Schwalbe ProCore, which I think everyone would agree puts the most localized force on a rim bed - and he told me it wasn't a concern on mountain bike rims. I'd like to think that if anything carbon rims have become stronger since then.
Anyway, I see this concept being bandied about an awful lot but thus far haven't found a carbon rim manufacturer who will own it or even back it up. For me personally, that would be a good reason to stick with aluminum rims, since I like how inserts change how my bike rides - especially in the greasy winter months - as much as I like the extra rim protection.
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IslandLife
9 months, 2 weeks ago
To piggy back on this... I can't get my brain to understand how a piece of foam can be a mode of transfer stable enough to take the load of smashing the weight of a human + bike onto a rock... to the bed of the rim.
If anything, it's more likely doing as it's intended and absorbing/minimizing that load and saving more entire wheels as well.
Seems like people are conflating or trying to blame an foam insert for incidents that, without the insert, would have likely ended in an extreme failure.
There may be something to the fact that carbon rims flanges HAVE to stand up to big hits and so often we are seeing the entire wheel fail before a flange does. But again, I can't see how a peice of foam would make that more likely.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Yeah, mean, I get the claim - despite my foam insert absorbing and dispersing forces it is transferring loads that would be born by the rim’s sidewalls to the rim’s spoke bed.
But I’m with you in eating the three course meal of skepticism. Plus skepticism for dessert.
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Andrew Major
9 months, 2 weeks ago
Separately, I have a good CC Gravel story from the other day. I've actually started calling it CCC - CushCore Commuter - because I know plenty of dirt-roadies who'd choke to death on the idea of adding that much weight to their wheels, but folks who use their bikes to get around are more likely to want the fail-safe.
Riding to work, same pressure I usually run, but I had my wife's wheel (including the tire) strapped onto my rack. It's not that heavy, but extended out over my front wheel I guess the leverage was enough. It was all good until I headed downhill and bottomed onto my insert off the first curb I popped off. No drama. Just kept on riding.
I'm running Schwalbe G-One tires on Velocity Dyad rims. I don't want to be too dramatic but the same hit could certainly have written off either or both.
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Rick M
9 months, 1 week ago
Adding a rear CC reduced the air time between my flat shoes and pedals. Worth every extra gram.
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